TOPIC: Ellansé poor results

Androfill wrote: In regard to Machinations' result, I have sympathy for what has occurred here.

First, the result is not good, Machinations says that it feels like the product is too shallow. Also there has been migration of Ellanse leaving a collection of the product in the thin skin before the glans. It is unsightly and Dr Horn has initially tried to address the lumps with Kenalog injections. They may need to be excised if they are resistant to other interventions.

Machinations did not notice the lumps / collection of product until after the swelling following the procedure had gone down, and by this time he was unable to distribute the product.

Machinations also feels that I did not sufficiently explain how to mould the filler after the procedure.
I could not be at the clinic on the day of his procedure, however we spoke on the phone following the procedure to discuss moulding, albeit briefly.
I am happy to take calls from patient at all hours of the day, however it was not until 20 days later that I heard from Machinations again via Whatsapp with photos showing the problem, at that stage too late to deal with.

The instructions given to all patients are below. Patients are to press into the filler, ideally when erect, in order to distribute the product and should keep the penis as horizontal as possible to avoid filler migrating down towards the head due to gravity and the impact of walking - whether that is by wearing briefs rather than boxers, or an extender device not attaching behind the glans.

Androfill Aftercare Document
www.androfill.co.uk/aftercare/

Generally Dr Horn would prefer that all patients wanting to have Ellanse first try a small amount Hyaluronic acid filler, we can include as part of a package so that there is no additional cost to the patient to first do a test run with a small amount of HA. Perhaps in trying HA the patient will feel that HA is sufficient and they will not need to proceed to a higher-risk product.

Alternatively, if a patient tries HA and still wants to proceed to Ellanse, they will have gained some experience with moulding a safe dermal filler in the penis (which we can easily adjust with Hyalase). They will know what to do if swelling should occur and how to distinguish swelling from product in order to distribute any lumps obscured by swelling.

It would also be better to use HA first to catch the small % of patients whose anatomy means they are just not good candidates for dermal filler of any type, due to for example tight bands of tissue running along the shaft, or loose areas in which filler tends to want to migrate into.

Back to the case of this patient, it is unfortunate that only after the swelling subsided were the lumps discovered.
It is not uncommon for filler of any type to migrate to this region. Usually, it is massaged out by the patient or dissolved away in the case of HA in the clinic.
It is not the patient's fault that the lumps were not found in time due to swelling.

In regard to there being no change in the girth of the penis. We are conservative with Ellanse, particularly with first-time patients, and this patient was limited to 6 ml.
There will be a 6 ml / cc change in girth, which will be limited given his length.

Steps forward:
Dr Horn has seen the patient twice to attempt to break up the lumps with Kenalog. One lump reduced in size, the other remains.
If the remaining lump is resistant to further intervention it may need to be excised.
This is being addressed at no cost to the patient, and we will work with the patient until the situation is resolved.
If the patient wishes to try this procedure again, we would repeat it for him at no cost or return his initial procedure fee, although the same risks would remain the second time.

After a long run of happy Ellanse patients, Machinations was the 89th without issue, it is a reminder to me of the risks of Ellanse and how we were reluctant to use a non-dissoluable product for so long. Balanced against this higher risk of Ellanse, is what I accept are in most cases the superior results provided by Ellanse.
Many of the Ellanse patients at the clinic are ex-HA and they attest to the fact that Ellanse feels better than HA, essentially firmer.
When we hear patients saying "I won't ever go back to HA after Ellanse" it puts us in a difficult spot.

We could (and used to) only offer a safe product (HA) which doesn't feel quite as good.
Under some demand from patients 2 years ago we started to offer Ellanse which feels better but which unfortunately has a small risk of a bad outcome such as in this case, although Dr Horn is confident that it will be addressed.

If you are considering Ellanse, it is worth reading the consent form on pages 6 and 7 at the link below which specifically concern Ellanse.

Androfill Consent

Pacora wrote:

Androfill wrote: In regard to Machinations' result, I have sympathy for what has occurred here.

First, the result is not good, Machinations says that it feels like the product is too shallow. Also there has been migration of Ellanse leaving a collection of the product in the thin skin before the glans. It is unsightly and Dr Horn has initially tried to address the lumps with Kenalog injections. They may need to be excised if they are resistant to other interventions.

Machinations did not notice the lumps / collection of product until after the swelling following the procedure had gone down, and by this time he was unable to distribute the product.

Machinations also feels that I did not sufficiently explain how to mould the filler after the procedure.
I could not be at the clinic on the day of his procedure, however we spoke on the phone following the procedure to discuss moulding, albeit briefly.
I am happy to take calls from patient at all hours of the day, however it was not until 20 days later that I heard from Machinations again via Whatsapp with photos showing the problem, at that stage too late to deal with.

The instructions given to all patients are below. Patients are to press into the filler, ideally when erect, in order to distribute the product and should keep the penis as horizontal as possible to avoid filler migrating down towards the head due to gravity and the impact of walking - whether that is by wearing briefs rather than boxers, or an extender device not attaching behind the glans.

Androfill Aftercare Document
www.androfill.co.uk/aftercare/

Generally Dr Horn would prefer that all patients wanting to have Ellanse first try a small amount Hyaluronic acid filler, we can include as part of a package so that there is no additional cost to the patient to first do a test run with a small amount of HA. Perhaps in trying HA the patient will feel that HA is sufficient and they will not need to proceed to a higher-risk product.

Alternatively, if a patient tries HA and still wants to proceed to Ellanse, they will have gained some experience with moulding a safe dermal filler in the penis (which we can easily adjust with Hyalase). They will know what to do if swelling should occur and how to distinguish swelling from product in order to distribute any lumps obscured by swelling.

It would also be better to use HA first to catch the small % of patients whose anatomy means they are just not good candidates for dermal filler of any type, due to for example tight bands of tissue running along the shaft, or loose areas in which filler tends to want to migrate into.

Back to the case of this patient, it is unfortunate that only after the swelling subsided were the lumps discovered.
It is not uncommon for filler of any type to migrate to this region. Usually, it is massaged out by the patient or dissolved away in the case of HA in the clinic.
It is not the patient's fault that the lumps were not found in time due to swelling.

In regard to there being no change in the girth of the penis. We are conservative with Ellanse, particularly with first-time patients, and this patient was limited to 6 ml.
There will be a 6 ml / cc change in girth, which will be limited given his length.

Steps forward:
Dr Horn has seen the patient twice to attempt to break up the lumps with Kenalog. One lump reduced in size, the other remains.
If the remaining lump is resistant to further intervention it may need to be excised.
This is being addressed at no cost to the patient, and we will work with the patient until the situation is resolved.
If the patient wishes to try this procedure again, we would repeat it for him at no cost or return his initial procedure fee, although the same risks would remain the second time.

After a long run of happy Ellanse patients, Machinations was the 89th without issue, it is a reminder to me of the risks of Ellanse and how we were reluctant to use a non-dissoluable product for so long. Balanced against this higher risk of Ellanse, is what I accept are in most cases the superior results provided by Ellanse.
Many of the Ellanse patients at the clinic are ex-HA and they attest to the fact that Ellanse feels better than HA, essentially firmer.
When we hear patients saying "I won't ever go back to HA after Ellanse" it puts us in a difficult spot.

We could (and used to) only offer a safe product (HA) which doesn't feel quite as good.
Under some demand from patients 2 years ago we started to offer Ellanse which feels better but which unfortunately has a small risk of a bad outcome such as in this case, although Dr Horn is confident that it will be addressed.

If you are considering Ellanse, it is worth reading the consent form on pages 6 and 7 at the link below which specifically concern Ellanse.

Androfill Consent

Forgive me for being a bit Sceptical,

But from what i have read so far from Author of this post , I believe that the filler has really not been injected deep enough - between the Dartos Fascia and the Bucks Fascia , as you advertise on your Website- please check the attached photos.

I believe that it has been injected subcutaneous ( just under the skin) , otherwise the filler should not be moving along with the skin ( if injected deep to Bucks Fascia , this is one layer below the skin.


I am almost certain for myself, from all that i have read in this forum , that injecting the Filler with Cannula not subcutaneous ( directly under skin) ,

But injecting it between those deeper layers DF and BF ( which are Avascular - no blood vessels )
- is the most sophisticated method so far from all clinics.

I believe that this method combined with small amounts of filler ( up to 10 ml ) for every top up
Is the only way to achieve Aesthetic natural result up to 1 inch gain .

The method described on your website should be preventing -


MIGRATION TO FORESKIN
AND
ANY VASCULAR DAMAGE

If I ever decide to have this procedure it will be definitely with Androfill and Dr Horn.

The only thing that discourages me is that maybe Dr Horn is not much into Consulting and discussing in depth the procedure and maybe sometimes in a bit of rush with some patients ( from what i have gathered so far in phalloboards).

Of course there are brilliant results for many patients, but I believe that every Patient should receive excellent treatment and guidance throughout the whole procedure- from coming to consultation to fully healing.

Please if it is possible, could you provide Phalloboards Forum with some recent results post 2019, because most photos from Androfill website are from the time you have used needle to inject filler directly under the skin.


Thank you for your time !

John1982 wrote: I also would be very interested in these things @tiritera has outlined. I’m very close to going to with @androfill but their absence on the forum and no up to date before and after photos on there page doesn’t fill me with confidence.

phallo1 wrote: @Machinations

How have things developed since your last post?