PhalloBoards - An Online Community to Discuss Penile Girth Enhancement

123abc wrote:

itgoesthud wrote: …Be really interesting as well to see what the medium and long term results are of the PMMA injections Dr Liu is doing into the glans.

Is it PMMA or Belladerm? I believe those are two different product?

Dr Liu said Bellafill, which is a brand name of PMMA (i think a product named Belladerm does exist, but it's another dermal graft, not an injectable dermal filler).
Important distinction.

Skeptical_One wrote: ….

From Dr. Liu:
By 4-6 weeks, vasculature should already be established in the Alloderm, and this will continue to grow. The Alloderm is slowly replaced by the body's own collagen and becomes "part of the body" and rejection will no longer be a concern.


Bellafill is a good permanent filler for glans enlargement. One has to be careful not to have nodules formation by making sure the injection is just subdermal and deep intradermal and not into the corpus spongiosum. Careful massages must be done starting right after injection and continue to do so until the surface of the glans becomes smooth and not bumpy. Bellafill is considered to be a permanent filler, although some reduction can occur over the years and sometimes it is necessary to do touch-up injections. Hyaluronic acid, however, is temporary and completely disappears in less than 1 1/2 to 2 years.

Thanks!

I’d imagine the timeframe might be much longer for surgimend as opposed to alloderm since surgimend is typically thicker (and doesn’t come from human tissue).
However, I don’t really know, it’s just my guess..

itgoesthud wrote:

Skeptical_One wrote: By 4-6 weeks, vasculature should already be established in the Alloderm, and this will continue to grow. The Alloderm is slowly replaced by the body's own collagen and becomes "part of the body" and rejection will no longer be a concern.

It almost sounds like you end up with a massive network of blood vessels that builds within the dermal graft, eventually replacing the graft tissue with collagen, and removing the graft material via the newly-established vasculature.

Skeptical_One wrote: Bellafill is considered to be a permanent filler, although some reduction can occur over the years and sometimes it is necessary to do touch-up injections.

This is also interesting. What reduces, the carrier gel or the spheres? As long as the spheres are there shouldn't the body keep replacing any lost collagen if any is metabolized? Are we losing spheres to the lymphatic system? In the shaft we expect the gel to dissipate, spheres stay behind and get encapsulated by collagen like a pearl in an oyster. But the spheres stay there until you die, no? I guess I don't understand the mechanism by which it reduces - my worry is somehow the microspheres are leaving the site and entering the bloodstream.

To be frank I'm not sure of his comments regarding "some reduction over the years, but my guess would be either (1) atrophy/shrinkage some men experience with age and/or lifestyle habits over years, which may also impact the collagen or (2) speculation based on Suneva's (Bellafill's manufacturer) projection of a 5-Year lifespan of PMMA.

And as for Suneva's claims, I'm not sure why or what they are thinking but I have a few plausible scenarios:
(1) They had 5 years of data when obtaining FDA Clearance, so they could guarantee it for at least 5 years.
-or-
(2) It's a disingenuous marketing pitch -- a lot of Cosmetic Clinics aren't overly fond of permanent fillers and so if you advertise it as long-lasting instead, it may become more appealing to Doctors who would otherwise be on the fence.
-or-
(3) Perhaps it isn't entirely permanent, but so long-lasting that for most people it's effectively permanent (in other words, I'm 12 years post-op with no notable loss in size from PMMA, but maybe will notice some loss at the 15 or 20 year marker?). By all accounts, it is seemingly permanent.


The microspheres in Bellafill are pretty much in the same size range as Linnea Safe (which is crucial), the only notable difference being carrier. On paper, Bellafill should absolutely be permanent, and I have yet to hear a scientific/medical claim that would suggest otherwise.

If you guys want to continue discussing the merits of Bellafill in conjunction with Alloderm or Surgimend, I recommend creating a new topic. I don't mind the discussion of course, but I also don't want to hijack Skiman's thread either. Thanks

Skeptical_One wrote: By 4-6 weeks, vasculature should already be established in the Alloderm, and this will continue to grow. The Alloderm is slowly replaced by the body's own collagen and becomes "part of the body" and rejection will no longer be a concern.

It almost sounds like you end up with a massive network of blood vessels that builds within the dermal graft, eventually replacing the graft tissue with collagen, and removing the graft material via the newly-established vasculature.

Skeptical_One wrote: Bellafill is considered to be a permanent filler, although some reduction can occur over the years and sometimes it is necessary to do touch-up injections.

This is also interesting. What reduces, the carrier gel or the spheres? As long as the spheres are there shouldn't the body keep replacing any lost collagen if any is metabolized? Are we losing spheres to the lymphatic system? In the shaft we expect the gel to dissipate, spheres stay behind and get encapsulated by collagen like a pearl in an oyster. But the spheres stay there until you die, no? I guess I don't understand the mechanism by which it reduces - my worry is somehow the microspheres are leaving the site and entering the bloodstream.

I know some have already chimed in but I got an answer directly from the Doctor verbatim, so it is worth sharing (Dr. Liu's response in Green text):

itgoesthud wrote: I guess the next interesting question as far as timelines; we know it could take 6+ months for collagen stimulation to slow down or stop, but how long until vascularization is finished? adequate? I'm curious how long it takes for the graft to have all of the vasculature that it's going to have. My guess is that's going to play a large part in how much collagen you get AND the likelihood the implant is accepted permanently.

By 4-6 weeks, vasculature should already be established in the Alloderm, and this will continue to grow. The Alloderm is slowly replaced by the body's own collagen and becomes "part of the body" and rejection will no longer be a concern.

itgoesthud wrote: Have any of these docs spoken on this? Wondering how long until you're essentially "in the clear" and rejection or loss of the graft is no longer a concern. Especially reading about the guy who had a graft the "old way" some years ago and the second graft ended up rejected.

Be really interesting as well to see what the medium and long term results are of the PMMA injections Dr Liu is doing into the glans.

Bellafill is a good permanent filler for glans enlargement. One has to be careful not to have nodules formation by making sure the injection is just subdermal and deep intradermal and not into the corpus spongiosum. Careful massages must be done starting right after injection and continue to do so until the surface of the glans becomes smooth and not bumpy. Bellafill is considered to be a permanent filler, although some reduction can occur over the years and sometimes it is necessary to do touch-up injections. Hyaluronic acid, however, is temporary and completely disappears in less than 1 1/2 to 2 years.

123abc wrote:

Skeptical_One wrote:
…You also have to keep in mind that injectable phalloplasty isn't mainstream, so the percentage of women who even know this is a thing is so far & few that they'll likely chalk it up to it being an "unusual penis," and probably won't dwell on it much more than that….

That’s changing VERY rapidly. Women are aware as there have been articles in men’s magazines and in women’s magazines about different ways men enlarge their penises.

A subject they find intriguing and liberating. They often feel objectified and somewhat “forced” to get bigger boobs, etc.. so many feel relieved and even joyful to see some men go through similar bouts of insecurity with their bodies.

Also, the vast majority of health care professionals are women. Just look at the many posts here where guys had different procedures done and then ended up going to their regular healthcare practitioner to have stitches removed, bandages re-wrapped and even to have fillers injected into their penises....
Often the nurses or practitioners at those clinics wouldn’t do it because they’re not familiar with the procedure.
However - women talk. Always have and always will!
“Vive la différence!”
So if a single person went to a clinic in a smaller XYZ town to have stiches removed after a penile surgery of some kind, I guaradamntee you that ALL of the nurse’s girlfriends have heard about that. Period!
I was married to someone who worked in health care profession and trust me - if one woman in your town has heard, read or seen anything that unusual - every woman in health care profession in that town knows it.
They aren’t supposed to be doing it BUT they’re ALL doing it!
I remember my ex whispering to her girlfriends over the phone about any and all different or “weird” things she’d seen, or done for her patients that day.
She’d whisper because she knew I didn’t like that type of gossiping..

Point being - if a woman says she hasn’t heard about penile enlargement procedures she’s been living under a rock.. …or she’s lying.

A few things -- I'm not discounting that women chatter and that women are comprising more and more of the Healthcare sector, but the fact remains that these procedures are NOT mainstream and are probably the least performed cosmetic procedures by volume in the U.S.

And if this is changing as rapidly as you suggest, why haven't we seen more of this reported on the forums where this topic is relevant & discussed? You're speculating that this is becoming common knowledge more rapidly, and I'm saying there is no hard evidence for it.

Furthermore, this topic in particular was referring to pinching the skin of a man with dermal filler injections. Whether a woman has knowledge or not of these kinds of procedures, there is simply no reason for them to be pinching your skin, it's very much out of the ordinary, and that was ultimately what I wanted to get across.

123abc wrote: Wow, just read your infection story - sounds horrific..

Thank you for sharing!

Did you lose any sensation after having two surgeries?
That’s one of the worries I have, that somehow the nerves will be cut..

This is why modern techniques typically make this a "one & done" procedure, since introducing more graft not only increases surgical risks (e.g. infections), but the chances the grafts survive become slimmer.

Just a reminder that these procedures are elective in nature, and it should be noted that the risk of infection exists with all procedures, irrespective of the procedure type. Heck, even a Dental visit could pose a risk, no matter how small.

Now the conventional wisdom is to tailor a graft (Surgimend or Alloderm) for the patient to such a size that it provides adequate girth and natural aesthetics, while ensuring there will be enough vascularization for the graft to succeed. Furthermore, if more girth is absolutely desired in the future, the conventional wisdom is to use filler (fat or dermal) to compliment the pre-existing graft. This modern methodology has proven considerably more effective than techniques of old.

uncuthero wrote: did the doctor tell you that this is a permanent thing in the glands i never heard of putting bellafill in the glans I taught every provider said that was a no go

There is no standardized glans enhancement procedure, although most will opt for Hyaluronic Acid (HA) given its relatively strong safety profile and the relatively complicated part of the penis when it comes to dermal fillers. That being said, any number of other solutions are available for glans, but to what extent they are successful is hard to say (just too little reporting to draw anything conclusive).

Screen2584 wrote:

Pepperoni wrote: @Screen2584 I must have typed that incorrectly dermal graft with the fat injection or the MegaFill that will get it larger than just filler alone.

At first it was the dermal graft with MegaFill but when I told them to remove the pubic fat pad they said they will use that instead for less chance of rejection and I can always add filler on top of it. They said there should be at least 20ml + of the fat slurry they can inject after removing the pubic fat pad. They just said it’s my own body and they wouldn’t have to charge me extra for the MegaFill. Nowhere have I ever given them the impression that I’m looking to cut cost or anything. I’ll pay whatever to get great results and great care when it comes to this! They just seem to care about getting people the best bang for their buck so that you’re happy with the final results.
That’s the impression I’m getting because they could really be racking this bill up with me but they’re not and I think that says a lot for them.
Just like with the liposuction Hwang prides himself on being one of the best in Korea for lipo but said due to my visceral fat I most likely wouldn’t be happy with the results that I should continue to diet and exercise. He said he could give me a tighter chest but I’m just going to focus on the penis for now and that immediate area which will improve the appearance. I’m sure that I’m going to be hurting down there enough I don’t want my chest aching too.

You mentioned before that they make it seem like they don’t deglove which I had that impression for some reason too until watching the video, lol. I was on their website where they have sketches on how they do it. The sketches show a small incision where they slide the dermal graft up into the shaft nothing like what was on the video.

Dr Kim showed me a video where they did the slice at the top and bottom of the shaft then slid thin metal plates down through separating the shaft from the skin. The more I see it all the less sickened I am by it. I’m down to less than a week and need to get my mind made. 5S looks like what I’m going with but there’s still that part of that just wants a quick injection and quick recovery.

I think the video is much more reliable than sketches, and if you really want to be sure then you should ask. I also read some clinics describe it like that they "slide" or "inject" the dermal graft, but the dermal graft has to be attached to something, and the degloving procedure is clearly shown in the 5S video from the surgery.

Hi Screen, I have been reading your posts about your procedure and would like to thank you for your time an effort.

Would it be too much trouble if you could tell me how much girth increase you saw after your procedure after you healed ? was it about an inch or so ? Did you experience tightness (I realize there was some phimosis due to the foreskin...) at all on your shaft or lose any erect length at the end of the day so to speak? I guess what I am wondering is, was there a trade off of any kind to get to where you are now in terms of girth/length wise before and after ?

Thanks for sharing with us your situation, nodules can and do happen, and it's important that men learn that this is a possibility when pursuing dermal filler injections. This is why subsequent visits are almost inevitable because imperfections, or worse, contour irregularities (nodules, ridges, lumps, etc.) can result. While the quality of the filler product and experience of the injector is paramount, dermal fillers like Ellanse and PMMA (Bellafill in this case) have a degree of unpredictability because they rely on collagen growth to provide size.

It should be noted that nodules do not affect the health or function of the penis for those who may not otherwise know.

A few things to clarify:
As it pertains to removal, I've never said that removal is never necessary, only that it is a last resort, and issues like nodules are readily correctable without something as invasive as a de-gloving.

Also, I need to do a better job providing a PSA to uncut men who seek out dermal filler injections. The reality is, both through progress reports, as well as my conversations with different Doctors, uncircumcised men tend to have higher likelihood of issues, including the infamous accordion effect.

Furthermore, while some injectors may say that being uncircumcised is OKAY, this may be due to the fact that many American practitioners simply don't have the volume of patients to notice the subpar results that stem from uncircumcised patients. What do I mean? While the statistics seem to vary online, it appears that at least 70% of the American male population are circumcised (and as high as 90% in some other estimates), meaning that most Penis Doctors are working on circumcised men. The few uncircumcised men they get (2 out of every 10 patients ?) aren't always going to have aesthetic issues, only a portion of them will. This is why it isn't plainly obvious to most American practitioners that uncircumcised men have an increased risk of irregularities, while in Europe it is very well known (higher rate of uncircumcised men in the population). This isn't a knock on the American Doctors, but rather, the reality of our demographics. I intend on having a more open communication with American Sponsors regarding this matter.

I would say if you are uncircumcised and wish to get dermal filler injections, either look into getting adult circumcision, or if you are against that, opt for surgical options like Surgimend provided by the likes of Dr. Liu and Dr. Solomon. This doesn't mean remaining uncut disqualifies you from these types of procedures, but you will have to go into it knowing it isn't optimal.

And as for the topic at hand, @uncuthero , I believe continued intervention of the nodules will work in due time. Many nodules soften and dissipate (they did for me), and others can be broken up via cannula and treated with Kenalog shots. Sometimes these treatment protocols may take 2 or 3 visits over the course of a year to resolve, but rest assure they usually do. DMSO has been a go-to method for some users here, but I would get a Doctors opinion on that before engaging in something that may or may not exacerbate your situation.

Keep us up-to-date for whatever methods work for you in your quest to resolve these aesthetic irregularities, and I'm confident you will find solutions.

Skeptical_One wrote:

Awrest wrote:

Skeptical_One wrote:

Awrest wrote: Hi, all,

I’m likely moving to a city in the Middle East sometime this year. Are there any reputable PMMM practitioners near there? Flying to even the UK or Asia should be relatively inexpensive, so that opens things up a lot.

To be honest, most times I've heard about Middle Eastern phalloplasty over the last decade involved Doctors traveling there to perform work, at least that's what I've heard through the grapevine.

You're likely going to have to travel to see a vetted practitioner.

For Europe, you can look into:
Androfill
(Plastic Surgery - United Kingdom)
They don't offer PMMA, but do offer Ellanse, which generates girth much the same way and is relatively long-lasting.

For Asia, you can look into our newest Sponsor:
Proud Clinic
(Urology - South Korea)
They have a very English-fluent Patient Coordinator
They offer a filler I've only seen in Asian regions similar to PMMA (although I don't know its longevity).


You could travel to the U.S. if you absolutely want PMMA, but I think the aforementioned Clinics provide comparable solutions for what you're looking for. You'll have to take note that these procedures often require subsequent visits for minor touch-ups or additional girth. Logistics becomes more complicated the further you have to travel in my opinion.

Does Ellanse have a similar firmness to PMMA? I was going to go down the HA road but then I read too many complaints about HA being soft, especially for anal sex

I'm not sure where you saw "many" complaints regarding HA, a few have said as much but most men I have talked to (or who have submitted reviews in the Directory section) appear to be happy with HA. The key with HA is to build incrementally so some of the filler is integrated into the surrounding tissue so that you can build upon it as some dissipates over time. Your penis has some natural-give anyways, the filler shouldn't be very firm.

Ellanse (Androfill) as well Proud Urology's Filler are both based on inducing neocollagenesis, the same mechanism by which PMMA generates girth. For this reason, they are going to be comparable in look & feel.

Note* Androfill may require patients get small volume of HA injected first to see how compliant the individual's penis is to dermal filler. Not all men are prime candidates. I don't believe the same is true for Proud.

There are other Clinics around the world, but frankly, with my one & only dick I'd much prefer trusting vetted practices that have been on the scene for many years.

I’m sure many you’ve spoke to were happy with HA but as a gay man all of my sex is anal and I can’t take risks with softness there, so I’d rather go with fillers that I’ve heard are more firm than HA.

I’ll look into the Korean clinic, as well as Ellanse.

Awrest wrote:

Skeptical_One wrote:

Awrest wrote: Hi, all,

I’m likely moving to a city in the Middle East sometime this year. Are there any reputable PMMM practitioners near there? Flying to even the UK or Asia should be relatively inexpensive, so that opens things up a lot.

To be honest, most times I've heard about Middle Eastern phalloplasty over the last decade involved Doctors traveling there to perform work, at least that's what I've heard through the grapevine.

You're likely going to have to travel to see a vetted practitioner.

For Europe, you can look into:
Androfill
(Plastic Surgery - United Kingdom)
They don't offer PMMA, but do offer Ellanse, which generates girth much the same way and is relatively long-lasting.

For Asia, you can look into our newest Sponsor:
Proud Clinic
(Urology - South Korea)
They have a very English-fluent Patient Coordinator
They offer a filler I've only seen in Asian regions similar to PMMA (although I don't know its longevity).


You could travel to the U.S. if you absolutely want PMMA, but I think the aforementioned Clinics provide comparable solutions for what you're looking for. You'll have to take note that these procedures often require subsequent visits for minor touch-ups or additional girth. Logistics becomes more complicated the further you have to travel in my opinion.

Does Ellanse have a similar firmness to PMMA? I was going to go down the HA road but then I read too many complaints about HA being soft, especially for anal sex

I'm not sure where you saw "many" complaints regarding HA, a few have said as much but most men I have talked to (or who have submitted reviews in the Directory section) appear to be happy with HA. The key with HA is to build incrementally so some of the filler is integrated into the surrounding tissue so that you can build upon it as some dissipates over time. Your penis has some natural-give anyways, the filler shouldn't be very firm.

Ellanse (Androfill) as well Proud Urology's Filler are both based on inducing neocollagenesis, the same mechanism by which PMMA generates girth. For this reason, they are going to be comparable in look & feel.

Note* Androfill may require patients get small volume of HA injected first to see how compliant the individual's penis is to dermal filler. Not all men are prime candidates. I don't believe the same is true for Proud.

There are other Clinics around the world, but frankly, with my one & only dick I'd much prefer trusting vetted practices that have been on the scene for many years.

Mynameis74 wrote: Back thanks all. Someone mentioned getting a permanent filler. Is HA permanent? Thanks

No it is not. For some people, the fact that it isn't permanent is a plus, since if you don't like your results, they aren't forever, and if you do like your results, you can build on it incrementally. The disadvantage of course is budgeting money & logistics for top-offs every 1-2 years -- although in fairness, you aren't going to need to do full rounds every top-off, so you won't be injecting nearly as much each subsequent trip.

The other advantage of HA is that it's arguably the safest of all fillers relatively speaking. No procedure is without risk of complication, but all things considered, HA naturally occurs in the body and is formulated (and cross-linked) as a dermal filler for the purposes of increasing volume.

I consider it a good "starter filler" because it'll give you a good idea how well your penis takes filler product and how it looks aesthetically. And of course, if you end up liking the HA, you can continue with it.

I'm incredibly excited to introduce a 3-Man Team of Urologists in South Korea who have been innovating Men's Sexual Medicine for many years now in Seoul, South Korea.

Dr. Hwang Inseong, Dr. Lee Jiyong, and Dr. Koo Jinmo offer an array of male enhancement services, including (but not limited to) their 5S Penis Enlargement Surgery, UROLIFT, BPH Treatment, Erectile Dysfunction Surgery, Premature Ejaculation Treatment, Vasectomy & Vasectomy Reversal (Vasovasostomy), Adult Circumcision, Reconstruction Procedures, Penile Curvature Correction, Scrotal Reconstruction, Male Breast Reduction (Gynecomastia), and Body/Fat Pad Liposuction.

Their Penis Enlargement (which is of most interest to this forum) consists of Girth Enhancement (via Dermal Filler -OR- Dermal Graft), Lengthening, and Glans Enhancement.

It's literally a One-Stop Destination for a Full-Male Enhancement Package, or just straight forward Penis Enlargement. Medical Tourism is quite popular in certain parts of Asia, including places like Thailand and South Korea, and it isn't uncommon for Americans, Australians, Asians, and Europeans to travel to get quality work done at a competitive value.

Proud Urology's Patient Coordinator James is fully fluent in English and can assist would-be patients in their travels to South Korea.

Lastly, Proud Urology has a plethora of media content arguably unmatched among my current Sponsors. Tons of Before & Afters, a large YouTube catalog, and printed information that will be a fine addition to the knowledge-database of the PhalloBoards.

I ask the Community to welcome Proud Urology in hopes that we can all mutually benefit from learning more about improving self-image and sexual prowess.


ProudUrology.com
Designated Forum Category
Directory Listings

OldZol123 wrote: Hi

I had pmma with Dr.Casavantes around 12 years ago. Just one session which gave a little boost but I had mostly forgotten about. I got married had kids and have just lived my life. My wife doesn’t even know about it.

Yesterday I have developed swelling in the whole area. It looks and feels all pumped up like it did post procedure. Nothing painful yet but it’s looking odd and appears to be swelling more and more.

I am a bit worried about what is happening and have no idea where to turn to or what to do next. Is there any known specialist in UK who I could contact? I see some of the mods from the old boards are still around. Could someone maybe shoot an old timer a pm? Thanks

You could reach out to @Androfill to take a look. They use Ellanse which is quite similar to PMMA in how it generates girth via collagen, and therefore reactions and complications are similar in nature as well.

May I ask, have you applied any strenuous physical force on your penis in the last 24 hours (aggressive masturbation, penis pumping, etc.)? Some men report temporary swelling after bouts of aggressive masturbation, sex, or penile exercises. This appears to be harmless and dissipates over days.

If not, it could be a late onset granuloma reaction, which are known, albeit rare complications that can occur with just about any dermal filler. I would not be alarmed however, these can be treated, however requires a Physician well versed in this area. Androfill would have physicians who would know the protocols to treat a FBG (granuloma), if this is indeed the case.

If you can upload photos it could help give us better context - alternatively you can email them to This email address is being protected from spambots. You need JavaScript enabled to view it. as well.

Again, if there is no pain I wouldn't be alarmed but I would have it examined by someone who knows. A primary care doctor may have no clue what's happening and may end up prescribing a treatment plan that could exacerbate this issue. See someone who experience in this area --> either Androfill in the U.K. -or- if budget & logistics aren't an issue, even a week long trip to MX if that's in the cards.

And please keep the forum up to date, good luck!