TOPIC: Please help.......

Saline injections are fantastic - though deceptive and very short lived. I\'ve had a few small injections to try to dilute / break the nodules (didn\'t work) but they did make everything around the nodules SO even and soft. wow. Beautiful outcome from saline. I believe 48 hours is the max that will last unfortunately.

Bob - sorry I didn\'t realize you had this done in Korea. What was the korean name for the HA? Did they tell you?

I read your story Restoration, extreme. No one deserves that .

Thanks. Fortunately, it is mostly over unless I get a touch up (silicone or Radiesse at most). I may want to get a scar Revision at one point since I have a raised scar with train tracks on it from my Dermatologist right on the side... but every little surgery with a PMMA penis is risky... at least in my experience.

@007 and for anyone who is interested - i got the answers to my questions from androfill in london.

turns out that their email went to my spam box and i only found it by chance but they replied within 48 hours and then when i enquired further they came straight back to me in an hour. i only mention this because it is such a contrast to every other place i have emailed, who mostly just send a \'marketing blurb\' or do not even bother to reply at all !

anyway, here is the info. i was impressed with the detail they put into the response - pictures to illustrate the \'volume\' effect were very helpful IMO - and also they were really emphasizing that they do not like to inject too much in one go for various reasons. but you all make your own minds up. i post this just to add to the body of information people might want to consider when thinking about HA or any fillers really.

........

[clinic email]
Good morning My name is Francis and I coordinate patients at Androfill. I had a chat to the doctor about your questions, so I have some answers for you. - is the hyaluronic filler you use \'juvederm voluma\' or another brand? The fillers we use are Juvederm Voluma and Juvederm Ultra XC. - you refer to a \'volumiser\' - is this another form of hyaluronic acid filler, in addition to juvederm that you mix with it, or something else ? You are referring to the patient information on the website. The type we use is always 'standard', and not mixed with volumiser. The doctor will show you the filler in the packet before he injects. It looks like this www.androfill.com/what_is_hyaluronic_acid/ - 6ml to 8ml sounds like a very small volume (although obviously I am no expert I am just thinking of what that volume of water looks like), does the volumiser you mention on the site increase this and by how much? I had a think of how to answer this without mathematics, and I thought I'd use some props instead, see photos attached. Excuse me if it's a little rudimentary. (pictures attached)

The container is 6 inch in circumference, which is an extremely large size for a penis, so we have used exactly 8 mls of solution (a penis of this size requires a lot of filler, it isn't a linear type equation because increasing from 5 to 6 inch girth requires a lot more filler than from 4 to 5). When we place the 5 inch white container into the solution, you can see how far up the solution rises in the container.The solution would rise higher if a smaller beginning circumference for example 4 inches, was being thickened by the same proportion. I don't have the props available (my apologies). But I think you will get the idea?The other aspect to consider is the water attracting properties of HA when introduced, which provides additional volume.How much volume you would like is obviously between you and the doctor. However an option might be to try 4 syringes and see how this is for you in practice. Then 2-4 weeks later have another 4 if you would like to. The second 4 are cheaper at '360 each. A 20% increase in girth is really dramatic in practice than it sounds on paper, so it's probably best to approach this conservatively and cumulatively.Feel free to give me a call, Francis, details below.

................

[further information then provided by a follow up email after i asked about the cumulative approach to enhancement and safety - see below - i underlined some sentences as I thought they were worth noting]

The more filler you inject in one single procedure, the higher the risk. Although there are millions of HA fillers injected each year in the face, and only a half dozen cases of necrosis (the worst outcome), it does very rarely happen. It is better to err on the side of caution. It may be inconvenient, but we advise coming in a couple of times (or more if you wish) to cumulatively add girth, if going beyond 8-10mls.

Aside from the safety aspects (and HA is the safest filler you can inject), it also allows you to have a little more precision and control over the size added.
It is advisable to take a look at the filler product being injected ' don't rely completely on the doctor. You want to see the doctor take the filler from the sealed packet, so you know what you're getting true volume and pure HA. This probably is not much a concern here in the UK, but it always pays to check. Branded HA filler is expensive, this creates an incentive to water it down.

yep, saline is a couple of days tops. but it does feel very smooth. basically a sausage plumped up with water is what you get

dextrose lasts longer, i havent done it but i believe 4 or 5 days, and also \'swells\' while its in there - your body pumps water into it i think and it makes your kidneys work a bit processing it (depending on the volume - those scrotum inflaters go a bit crazy with volumes sometimes lol)

anyway, i dont want to stray off topic for this site but if anyone wants to know about saline stuff they should probably just head over to www.forums.newart.com/phpbb . or send me a message, although i dont do it regularly, just tried a few times. but i know what you need, the sterile disposable medical kit and where to buy it in the uk without needing to be a doctor or whatever.

That\'s interesting. Do you think you\'re going to do it?

I think they may be overstating the volume gains... maybe... it\'s possible that the water-attracting properties may make it attract more than 1cc when you inject 1cc.

In the face, 1 cc (1 vial) does a lot actually, but 1-2mm of change in the face is noticeable.

@restoration
i am seriously considering it. to be honest if the cost / volume ratio was a little better i definitely would.
at the moment i am weighing that up because '3000 (over $4000) for a temporary effect seems crazy when i compare to the cost of PMMA for example but then i would need to add thousands for travel to mexico and need to pay travel costs and find weeks of free time to do the trips at least 3 times. plus i am just not keen on getting a procedure like that so far away from home. if i lived in the US i would feel differently.

i have been reading with interest the information about Ellanse filler which lasts up to 4 years (the Ellanse E version anyway) and is apparently a collagen growth stimulator, a bit like sculptra. i havent heard of anyone using sculptra for PE procedures, dunno why.

i will likely go in for a consultation at Androfill anyway, to check it out in more detail before laying out that much cash. consultation with teh surgeon costs '50 although really they just do the procedure there and then - it takes under 30 minutes apparently. also they use a blunt cannula not needle.

i did have some hope with that doctor N in Prague but after the first few pioneers years back (from my research on this site) i hear nothing aside from people saying that she hasnt responded to their email enquiries. having said that @eastender was back online recently and i asked him how he was with it years later and he said all fine. so i guess she had some successes, its a shame that actually arranging it seems to be so difficult. Prague is a beautiful city, i have visited on holiday and would be happy to take a long weekend there and have a consultation if only she did them !

If I read their website right 10 = '4,000 and then return for 5 more top up 12 mth later . So the 5 more is 1,800. Thats doable ..35' a week every year . Thats IF 10 is sufficient.

Not including new collagen which might or might not happen.

I got juvederm for under eye hollowness... started around age 28 and I did it 2-3 times (1cc every time). It never really went back to being as hollow as it was. It\'s possible to leave some lasting collagen, but this is very small (think 2-3mm under the eye - you wouldn\'t want more or it would look odd). The undereye area is also notorious for the filler lasting for years. It has something to do with muscle movement or metabolism of the product in more active areas...so goes the theory (lips last the least).

With the penis, I\'d be afraid the juvederm wouldn\'t stay in place. PMMA leads the body to create a network of collagenous / scar tissue around the penis, above bucks fascia. Juvederm isn\'t doing anything like that. It sometimes felt lumpy in my face, at first, and then you can massage it and it will smooth out - but since it is injected deep, you don\'t see the lumps (you can feel them for a while). The face is also very dense with muscle, unlike the penis. So, that muscle holds the filler down...i think. I am not sure how the penis feel if the HA \"bunches up\" or whatever. PMMA works a little better in the Penis IMHO because it will adjust as you go from Flaccid to Erect. It made your body make its own tissue - that is now a part of you? Will HA? (I honestly don\'t know but it\'s something I\'m curious about). HA is a \"third party\" so to speak.. it\'s a foreign material just sitting there.

When doing temples, they use a \"basket weave\" pattern with HA filler. (Dr. C might use something like this - not sure). This helps the injection go smoothly, as I was once told... so maybe that helps it go better in the penis (though injecting the penis is incredibly hard to do).

Sculptra hasn\'t been too popular in a while. It\'s very expensive for minimal gains, and it is unpredictable. It gave people some bad nodules, but they changed the dilution ratio and it is being used again in some cases. I think theres a Youtube of someone getting scuptra nodules cut out of her hand (she got them to plump up her veiny hands) - and it was just like my PMMA Nodule being cut out of my penis. I watched that video before I did any of my excisions.

good grief @restoration you have certainly been \'through the wars\' with those complications. its good you are on the forum to provide us with the benefit of your experiences.

HA, so far as I know, behaves quite differently depending on which one you have so for example, under eye they use the really thin one as it needs to be very smooth and natural (zero risk of lumps in that area) but it therefore \'breaks down\' and is absorbed more easily by the body - its thinner/more runny because the molecules are not cross-linked densely. in other areas, such as cheeks, they use the ultra plus or voluma versions which are much thicker (much more cross-linking apparently), injected into the subdermal layer, just a bit deeper than the dermis layer, consistency like thick clear glue.

HA fillers do not integrate with the body\'s own tissue, they do just kind of sit there. i imagine the effect is somewhat like after pumping my penis - its bigger, its pretty even all over but the skin layer is definitely \'thicker\' albeit unless you pump yourself you wouldn\'t really know (unless an extreme pumper). i can very easily add an Inch or more to my Girth for a day. i would like something that creates that effect without me having to sit around with a great big plastic tube suckered onto my penis for the evening !

like anything i think the skill and experience of the doctor makes a big difference and for sure its a lot different filling a penis than a cheek, there is quite a bit of stuff online about application/injection techniques and the difference they can make. so basically you want someone who has seen and worked on a whole lot of Dick before.

i am really not sold on there being any permanent effect or collagen growth though, i think that a bit more about marketing than science. anyway what i am trying to say is that until i find a proper, independent, medical trial that clearly shows new collagen growth - in human subjects not \'in vitro\' - then i am unconvinced. we will more easily believe what we want to believe but i am very sceptical about penis enlargement clinics that claim permanent effects from HA facial fillers.

so i would not go for this procedure in the hope of any permanent effect. i need to decide that the cost is acceptable to me for a 12 month increase, with ongoing annual top up - until something better comes along. my \'ideal\' is for a genuinely longer lasting injectable filler at a reasonable price - but i realise than any manufacturer that develops a proven long lasting, safe and easily injected filler, or proven collagen generator without unacceptable rejection/scarring/lump risk is going to be charging a high price for that miracle !

Hi mischiefmkr,

Ive been busy the last couple of days so I\'m making my way through this thread now!
Thanks for sharing the response email you got, brilliant feedback and good info.
I\'m researching again all the above & more, very helpfull so thanks to you & everyone else adding to this

...good grief @restoration you have certainly been \'through the wars\' with those complications. its good you are on the forum to provide us with the benefit of your experiences.

I\'ll 2nd that..........

I\'ve also had nothing but a professional response from the Androfill people.

I wish their participation here had gone down better.

It\'s all that puts me off.