PhalloBoards - An Online Community to Discuss Penile Girth Enhancement

I measured my own EL today and I have an approx 0.5” erect length increase. This is with consistent weight usage and I’m 3 months post op. I say approximate because I only measured once and I like to verify a few times.

Dr. Liu has a protocol for the 30 post op - either manual stretching or using weights for short intervals (4 sets of 30 seconds, 6X per day). After that you can use weights - you won’t want to use a noose system with the dermal grafts but Dr Liu will provide a weighted sleeve.

1” to 1.5” girth increase is definitely possible since it’ll likely be combined with filler or fat. Past 7” might be pushing it but @Dream has an extensive post on this. Am on mobile right now so can’t find the URL. I think he discusses it in his most recent recovery post.

Best of luck and don’t forget to pay it forward and post your experience!

almond123 wrote: What’s the best option in this case?

Probably Dermal Graft Surgery (like Alloderm or Surgimend, although last I heard Surgimend has been recalled and no timetable yet on its availability; that said, Alloderm is equally serviceable in this regard). This involves de-gloving the penis and wrapping a dermal graft matrix (kind of like a tissue scaffold) around the shaft. Assuming you don't stack too many "sheets" of these grafts, your penis will eventually integrate the new tissue with vascularization so that it can survive long-term (if not permanently) as an implant. Unlike silicone implants, this material is actual cadaver and so it will behave more like a penis than something rigid. Also far less likely to have aesthetic irregularities common with fillers (e.g. nodules, ridges, and asymmetry) because these grafts are tailored/cut to accommodate your shape & size.

Dr. Liu of the Bay Area and LA is a Plastic Surgeon who offers this procedure and has a few recent patient reports on the forums.

Dr. Solomon of LA is also a Plastic Surgeon who offers this procedure. Note*- he also has a Philadelphia (East Coast) location but he is in the process of relocating, so you'll have to contact them directly for up-to-date information.

---

As for fillers, this may be controversial for some with sensitivities to circumcision practices, but I simply don't think permanent fillers are ideal for uncircumcised men. The only permanent filler I'd recommend (period) is PMMA, and I personally wouldn't recommend it for the uncut demographic.

Is it possible to undergo a successful procedure with both excellent natural aesthetics as well as big gains as an uncircumcised man? Yes, but the frequency (odds) of incurring aesthetic irregularities goes up dramatically. The three longest running Sponsor Clinics on this site (which indicates a sufficient sample size of patients) have confirmed this reality. Two of those three Sponsors strongly recommend circumcision prior to filler injections (or otherwise require you to sign a waiver), with the remaining 3rd Clinic refusing to perform work on uncut men period.

There are Sponsors (and Non-Sponsors) who will perform this procedure for uncircumcised men, but in the U.S., varying stats suggest as much as 80%+ of the male population are circumcised. This implies that Clinics that do less penis volume (whether because they are new on the scene, or because it's just one of many procedures they offer) are less likely to take into consideration the potential aesthetic irregularities presented by men with foreskin.

There is even a term called the "accordion effect" in which the filler can create that sort of description.

If you want to get a filler as an uncircumcised man, my recommendation would be to either:

• Get an adult Circumcision ( Pollock Clinics are Reputable for Adult Circumcisions ). Be sure to ask the Doctor/Clinic who will be injecting you what they recommend in terms of the type of circumcision (high, low, loose, tight).
• Assume the risks ahead and look into small volume injections, which you can build slowly over time. This can be costly over time, but at least you can reduce the risk of aesthetic irregularities associated with fillers & uncircumcised men

And while I know you stated permanent in your topic title, you could also look into Hyaluronic Acid (HA). Due to HA's temporary nature (18-24 months per some estimates) which requires top-offs periodically, it may be a great way to see how your penile dermis (skin) takes and accommodates dermal fillers in general. HA is not only temporary but reversible to some extent (especially if it is in low volume and the dissolving of HA is done relatively soon after the procedure). You may even end up liking HA and sticking to it to avoid the pitfalls of being stuck with a permanent, yet undesirable outcome.

Just remember folks, permanent options (be it PMMA or Dermal Grafts) are not readily reversible, and can be rather invasive should the need arise (albeit very uncommon). Temporary options are definitely more easy to manage when it comes to both aesthetics & complications, but the trade-off is that you'll have to occasionally visit the Clinic to top it off (like visiting the gas station to make sure your tire air pressures are optimal).

Hope that helps!

Holt wrote: Hi guys so I’ve lost 80% of my gains! I’m absolutely gutted I noticed today after work and I’ve just had an erection and you can’t even feel the filler at all! What other options have I got?! It looked so good with 10ml filler in after the first 2 weeks! I wasted £2700 on this I’m devastated. Has using the sun beds done this?

It appears you asked this question twice, so I went ahead and deleted the other topic out of redundancy. I will copy and paste the message you wrote in a separate topic below:

Topic Title: 12ml filler at Androfill - lost all my gains within 4 weeks
Hi guys, I’m absolutely gutted. So I had 12ml of volux at Androfill UK I picked 12ml filler which should have got me 0.5/0.6 Girth increase. The recovery was fine I moulded it perfect and I loved the look of my new Dick. I am in a long distance relationship I haven’t even seen my girl yet I am due to see her in 8 days time and I was so excited for the sex. Today after work I noticed wtf my Flaccid Dick looks like my old one and all day I’ve been feeling so bad. I got in from work and managed to get a hard on and yeah I’ve lost everything. My Dick looks and feels exactly the same. You can’t even feel the filler no more. What did I do wrong? I went on the sun beds like 4 times but surely that would not dissolve it? I feel heartbroken, after spending £2700 on something that I didn’t even get to use. Do I have any other options other than PMMA? -- @Holt



My response to that thread is as follows:

You are very much an outlier statistically. Our body's reabsorption/break-down of fillers vary person-to-person, with reports of guys retaining most of their HA for as much as 2 years (obviously less common) and as little as 6 months. However, 4 weeks is the quickest I've ever heard of full dissipation.

I have no idea if the sunbeds could have played a role but concentrated ultra-violet may have played a role, hard to say (although with how extreme your losses have been, it's a plausible hypothesis). Either way, I would reach out to Androfill (namely Francis) and tell him your situation. Also explain the sunbeds, as Hyaluronic Acid (HA) being a temporary may very well be less robust under certain conditions.

I will say however this does not appear to be the fault of Volux, Androfill, or even you. This seems to be either the unfortunate matter of your body have an incredibly high propensity to breakdown filler (which may make you better suited for Ellanse) and/or exposure to intense UV, which I can't blame Androfill for not including this as a warning because there is no telling if other men who have lost filler quickly made mention of their sunbed use, and to be frank, don't often hear men make indoor tanning a regular thing.

As a matter of fact, halfway through this post I decided to do a little digging. It turns out 70% of indoor tanning boutiques cater to Caucasian women, which means the remaining 30% account can account for a blend of men and women of different pigmentation. Granted, this is just one statistic found on Google, but other sites suggests that in the U.S. (not too different from the U.K. I'd imagine in this regard) see a prevalence of 1% to 2% of the overall male population as having ever indoor tanned. This means the prevalence of male indoor tanning is so infrequent that I don't know if I can fault Androfill for not having issued the warning, especially since the role of informed consent includes sharing with you potential complications; the use of a sunbed that may* degrade HA quicker than usual wouldn't apply. Heck, to think of it, I wonder if any Clinic on this site mentions avoiding UV in any of their materials given to their patients pre-op & post-op, it's just so exceedingly uncommon (that it's the first time I've read about it here where guys get HA all the time).

Even more telling is this (while I can't say for certain the claims below are accurate, it's worth mentioning the site itself deals with Skin Cancer, so I have reason to believe there may be some legitimacy to it), see below -->

From www.advancedlaserandskincancercenter.com/
Scientific research has indicated that UV exposure via sunlight and tanning beds degrades hyaluronic acid (as well as collagen). Therefore, safety precautions should be taken to protect the long-term results of dermal filler treatment during the summer months.

After having reading this, I am now heavily leaning toward the UV hypothesis, especially since the above claim includes dermal fillers by name. You see, 4 weeks is just insanely quick, like record-setting quick. You could very well be one of those who breakdown filler faster and HAPPENED to have UV only expedite the process, that's also a possibility. Again, this does not seem like the fault of any party or product, but possibly an unfortunate dance with fate, unknowingly exposing a dermal filler compound to intense and focused UV.

If it turns out the UV played a significant role and confirmed with high confidence, then I'm going to issue a PSA to the forum and a newsletter to all my Sponsors to begin including this information as it pertains to HA injections.

My strongest suggestion is to reach out to Francis, explain the losses, explain the sunbed and that there may be reason to believe UV can impact the HA filler and see what comes of it. There may be reason to believe HA will work for you so long as you discontinue sunbed use, or he may suggest Ellanse would be the better way to go while limiting sunbed use if this is something you'd like to continue doing down the road.

Trust me, they don't want patients spending thousands to see it gone in 4 weeks. I implore you to reach out to Francis next week given that it is the weekend now.

Screen2584 wrote:

6x5to6x7 wrote:

Lnpleaeu wrote: Thank you both so much for the detailed answers. I have put in the request for the consultation and the office has not been reaching out to me yet. I might try to call then tomorrow on my day off. I also have put in a request for 2 weeks off. I also have 2 days off in a row weekly so i can always flight back to remove the stitches. I have an office job so hopefully if I have to wear a hanging or stretching device, it would not be too visible nor too complicated to remove to go pee and put it back on easily. The recovery of 6 to 8 months is a a bit frustrating but I guess everything comes with a price. Idk if I read it here or somewhere else that filler or fat injection is kinda squishy and when you are having sex, the filler can be pushed to the base and kinda stick outside. Having the surgery with Surgimend, do you guys have the same problem? Or it would be more natural looking, feeling, and functional. Sorry if the question is too personal. Perhaps, Dr. Liu will explain it better.

Again, thank you so much for the detailed responding!

Hey brother. Just wanted to offer up my experience with PMMA. I have a thread going you can read. I’m only chiming in because you stated fillers look fake or maybe bunch up with sexy and might feel squishy, etc. I can’t speak for all fillers and some of that might be true. I can speak to the PMMA filler treatment I had done in December by Avanti Derma. It’s not squishy, does not feel fake, when I’m erect my dick is rock hard, my veins are already back. My dick is very natural looking and feeling. I actually am going in for round 2 next month because the results of round 1 were so great. I’m extremely happy and so is my wife. You’re recommended to not have sex for at least two weeks, but I had sex on day 6. I’m not recommending that, but I’m just saying…. I have as good or better results without having to go under the knife and endure a 6-9 month healing process. To each their own, but my goal was to achieve the safest, least invasive process with the best results. Hit me up if you have any questions. I just cringe at the thought of surgery when Avanti offers such a great result without surgery. All that said, I agree that the procedure I had done probably won’t help you with erect length.

If someone is considering permanent filler, then I think having a dermal graft is a good choice, because if something goes wrong with the filler it has to go out through surgery anyhow.

Besides, having a dermal graft is likely to give better results. You will not have to remove it because the result was bad, but rather in the rare case there is some complications.

Honestly though, I am a bit concerned how these dermal grafts do long-term, for example 10-20 years. If there are some complications, it has to be removed through surgery.

Even though dermal grafts have been done for nearly 3 decades, it is hard to say whether they are really permanent. However, I guess the same can be said for PMMA. Who knows if the filler might have to be removed for some reason?

Second, like you wrote, surgery should not be underestimated. You have to be strong mentally to cope with it, because it is your penis, but PMMA is also permanent and for that reason any complications might be devastating.

OP wrote that he had some temporary penile retraction, which is common, but it is enough to really freak someone out who is not so strong mentally. I believe that I had some penile retraction too after the surgery, and it gave me a lot of anxiety.

My point is: I believe it is a much better idea to start with HA, and if someone feels that they want to up their game, they can consider surgery or PMMA later. In my opinion, first-timers should not be encouraged to get surgery or permanent fillers. Androfill wrote it recently on the forum that they strongly discourage first-timers from having Ellanse.

Finally, I want to say that Dr. Liu has a treasure trove of information on his website. I wish another Q&A could be done with him.

Well said but to put everyone's mind to rest, both pmma / HA/ Ellansé and surgical methods like Alloderm / Surgimend and Megaderm can all give you great results as long as you go to a reputable and competent clinic/practitioner. And here meaning, "Phalloboards" you can get the launch pad for your best options and base your selections on your location, type of enhancement, budget and your expectations.


Fillers can offer you great results with much less down time from healing up and back into sex. But some people like my self opted for surgery, in my case because I wanted to keep things as biocompatible+permenant as possible and also I am not looking for ridiculous size gains. With fillers I have seen what some people can achieve and its pretty nuts, but its their choice. I personally didnt wan't to get addicted to being a "SIZE KING" Surgical methods tend to take long to heal but they also satiate that tendency to go back for "More and More".

But yeah waiting to heal is definitely not a perk, but it sure is a good breaking system for protecting you from your self basically a reality check if you will that just a "little bit more" might not always be the answer. I will say this... I have seen many GREAT journeys on this website with very happy ending and results and really good for them! And some guys that had really awesome results with fillers but just didn't stop while they were ahead... and went from amazing looking cocks with really nice girth and great esthetics to the absurd and abnormal. Try not to be that guy. Honestly no woman NEEDS a 7 inch girth cock. It is just my opinion obviously but having a 6 -6.4 inch cock puts you in that 1% group for a reason. It is a very high achievement... just some really rough math's but if the world population is 7 billion... and you have 6 inch girth puts you in the 1%...that means 70 million and now divide that by 2 because lets say half the world is women (its more btw) you are 1 of 35million men on this planet with that girth....and to be quite honest your more like 1 in 20 million or so once you include other factors. Its enough....

At the end of the day the grass will always be greener for various reasons for various people.

Main thing is to think long and hard before going through with something, spending too much time worrying "after the fact" and regretting things you do in life sucks right? It is very important to put logical limitations on everything you do otherwise you will be going in reverse/zig zags your whole life in fog with out lights and that is not a fun place to be.

Captain wrote: No sir. I live in the Northeast US. And I mentioned the hectic schedule only because finding time to do a top off every year may be difficult. Luckily, I’ll be off work this year from October to December. I haven’t had more than a week off in 2 years. So I plan on using this time off for myself.

I guess I’m really looking to hear from any members who also had shrinkage issues that for either procedure done and how their shrinkage is afterwards and if it caused poor results.

Oh well if you are in the Northeast, why even bother traveling to Australia (where Dr. Oates operates)? North American Directory Listing has a variety of options to consider without having to travel/budget too far. .

As for procedures like Alloderm, they've come a long way.

Firstly, infections are a byproduct complication of surgery, in other words, a percentage of elective surgery runs the risk of an infection (this is true for breast enlargement and so on). Typically uncommon when all the necessary clinical steps are taken, and often can be managed/resolved with antibiotics. Infections can, however, end up being a serious complication this is why these are called elective procedures, they aren't without risk. Heck, even dermal injectable fillers run the risk of infection, albeit quite low.

As for shrinkage. This was common with the older methods employed with graft surgeries. The modern approach (taken by the likes of Dr. Liu and Dr. Solomon) is to limit how much graft is implanted in order to ensure the tissue implant integrates and vascularizes with the penile shaft. The aforementioned shrinkage was due to having over-filled the penis with the graft implant (example: too many "sheets" of Alloderm or Surgimend wrapped around the penis), proving to be too much to adequately integrate & vascularize, leading to the failure of some of the graft implant, giving the appearance of shrinkage or girth contraction.

The modern approach alleviates this likelihood, and the risk of infection is inherent in all surgery that exposes your insides (i.e. a de-gloved penis) for a period of time, and can often be prevented or treated with antibiotics. The risk of infection isn't related to the Alloderm graft itself.

Dr. Solomon performs these procedures and has an Office in Philadelphia however I believe they are relocating to the West Coast and you would have to contact them to see if they are still taking appointments on the East Coast. Dr. Liu also performs this procedure is in California (currently Bay Area but may relocate to Los Angeles).

Otherwise, with the Directory Listing I linked above, there are a multitude of other options and Clinics to consider as well. Good luck!

EricPig wrote: Having FDA approval for a filler that you patented is a smart move for multiple reasons. I’m only addressing the point that you made that it’s “illegal”. Because you speak with certainty but… you don’t. I’m just trying to make you see that what your issue is a feeling. It’s not fact. Which again. You’re entitled to. But the accusations against Loria are unsubstantiated. You don’t have to go to him nor like him. But you can’t say things like “he’s injecting illegally” and have your members read that and take your word for it. That’s false.
He also does state that is what he is injecting. That’s well known in the office and website. But tell you what. Next time I go I’ll have them show me the vials lol. Which is something I know doesn’t happen at any of these other companies. But… I’ll do that to quiet this.

Ellanse is a unique compound dermal filler that is not FDA approved. For this reason, its use would be an issue of legality, since it would NOT be permissible to use within the United States. Loria's Mystery Cocktail is also a unique compound dermal filler that is not FDA approved. For this reason, its use would be an issue of legality, since it would NOT be permissible to use within the United States. Comprendes?

Do you know why the FDA regulates these fillers? To ensure they meet an acceptable risk threshold and are intended to provide positive benefits to the American patient/consumer. This is to test the efficacy of medical drugs and devices, which means Loria's Mystery Cocktail at BEST is unethical in its use(s), if not outright illegal.

Also, I made clear numerous times that I couldn't prove he was injecting illegally, but that I was suspicious of it based on the information available (and elaborated on why). I did so clearly multiple times and here you are saying otherwise. Please READ.

Call up any Cosmetic Clinic and ask them to read off their menu of fillers & other injectables. You'll hear Juvaderm, Bellafill, Botox, and so on. Not once are you going to hear, "and our In-House Specialty volume enhancer," like EVER. If they have Silikon1000, they'll inject you with just that. I mean again, nothing about this Loria smells right.

Also are you telling me that he uses Silikon1000 (a brand-name) as a core ingredient in his patent, as well as the same ingredient that will be submitted to the FDA for approval? I'd be curious to see if Silikon1000 could sue in this instance, but the legality of this matter is admittedly above my pay-grade. Like if the perfect "mixture" constituted a high enough percentage of Silikon1000 so that it's effectively "Silikon1000-Lite", wouldn't this amount to some kind of infringement? Interesting to see where that goes (if it goes anywhere at all).

You got duped by a "sleazy used car salesman" of a Doctor (no disrespect to any actual used car salesmen reading this lol) and you rather not swallow the pill. Every response you make falls flat on its face. You're not doing yourself or the Loria "brand" any justice to be frank, quit while you're ahead please. You claim you don't want to argue, but choose to anyways, all while making points that were previously refuted or addressed. Don't let this "ICU Nurse" thing get to your head buddy.

And I was going to wait until later to publish this piece on the frontpage, but since I did mention lymphatics in a previous post, check out this article with a Urological insight on penile injections as well as a case follow-up on a penile & testicular silicone enhancement -- FRESH OFF THE PRESSES:


Effectiveness of Silicone Injections for Penile Enlargements

EricPig wrote:

Skeptical_One wrote: First and foremost, my proclamations on the matter come from a multitude of respected physicians with considerably more authority on the subject, so this is not simply my own assumptions.

Secondly, Dr. Loria is a career liar. You have no idea how many times he changed up his vocabulary with respect to his filler and how quickly he'd change subjects. I've joined in on calls, and I've had members join in on conference calls, and he would just toss around gibberish assuming us (the "ignorant") would take his word for it. He would even throw around terms like "PMMA" and "Collagen production" and wouldn't even mention silicone at first. He's so evasive in fact, that there is a former patient on a separate PE forum who shared a story when in the hospital for his penis condition, that Loria refused to give the physicians information on what was injected. Can you believe that? This patient facing infection that could lead to sepsis, and Loria didn't have even the morality to do the right thing for his own patient because he's clearly got something to hide. I really try my hardest to refrain from name-calling as it is not befitting of an Administrator of a site discussing serious topics, but that was such a scumbag move on Loria's part and tells me everything I need to know about who he really is.

When I brought up him using the term "Cosmetic Surgeon," it wasn't meant to say that you need to be a surgeon to perform these procedures, it was to say he was lying about his medical background because he's in-fact NOT a surgeon in any capacity.

Yes, I received an email from his marketing rep, not himself obviously. He's too proud and stubborn to ever make the first move. I've defended Sponsors and Non-Sponsors alike. I'm open to new Sponsors. Ask yourself why I won't accept Loria? Why not take his money? Ask yourself why the vast majority of penis enlargement doctors don't include silicone oil as a filler option when they can use Silikon100 off-label? Do you really truly believe this Hair Restoration "specialist" has figured out what career-accomplished surgeons and urologists haven't?

Having followed the scene since 2005 and learned the nuances of the penis and these procedures from the Doctors themselves sort of actually does amount to the same kind of "credits" you'd need to earn to have some above-average understanding of the topic matter -- more so than a random "nurse" I'd contend. I've spent countless hours reading not only posts, but private messages, emails, and other modes of communication for well over a decade with both patients and Doctors (some of which were non-Sponsors). I've studied sexual medicine to the extent that I have a good understanding of anatomy and some of the physiologies involved, especially as it pertains to penis enlargement. Sure, I'm not a medical professional, but I do see myself as the most qualified Patient Educator there is (on matters of penis enlargement). Either way, my claims are made on the information provided to me by those who are in the know, and many of them.

Clearly your schooling has not made you any smarter on making good decisions in this respect, and I'm afraid not even a Doctorate will solve your inability to see the patterns of deception -- but I get it, the last thing you want to think about is having a ticking timebomb in your penis, so you have to double down on defending your poorly made decision by reassuring yourself that because you've had some medical training, that you're incapable of being scammed. You know, no one likes being scammed, it's a tough pill to swallow as a grown adult. Besides, an ICU Nurse? I seldom "LOL" on this forum but I know a few personally (ICU in fact), and I assure you they wouldn't have a damn clue about the nuances of penis enlargement, so kick rocks with that nonsense please.

Dr. Elist has been performing his botcheries circa 2009, and we all know how terrible his procedure is. Dr. Loria's patient count doesn't give him any points, all it tells me is that he's a sociopath for cash.

Yes, many of the Doctors I know of actually show the box, or at the very least, will have the box and serial number sticker per request.

You do realize that until he has FDA clearance, he's injecting you illegally, right?

Do you actually believe he changes the ratios of his filler ingredients per patient on the day of the procedure? Right there and then in his lab by just examining your penis? I mean that seems rather tedious, inefficient, and costly. Did you have to wait a while before he came into the room with the syringes? Seems bizarre if you ask me. If I were a gambling man, I'd wager a pretty penny he has a set ratio premade ready to go, largely that of silicone oil that is imported illegally in order to give him absurd profit margins. Last I checked, Silikon1000 was the 2nd most expensive filler, only behind Bellafill (PMMA), and looking at some price lists right now, may have exceeded that of Bellafill. To pump the kind of volumes you require with this type of filler (60cc's +) and keep his pricing market-competitive, I'm having a hard time believing he's using anything legally. But you just haven't asked yourself those kind of questions, have you? I'm trying to do you a favor here, if you can only see it.

What you ultimately fail to see is that this site promotes the efficacious methods of phalloplasty based on its history, the science/medicine behind it, and patient feedback. The PhalloBoards is the only site, community, and validated source (via physician education & endorsement) that has followed this niche topic, and has done so for 13 years. It isn't bias, it's reality. If it were bias, why would I provide my readership with different options like Alloderm, Surgimend, Ellanse, Hyaluronic Acid, Radiesse, PMMA (Bellafill AND Linnea Safe), Renuva, Fat Transfer, and so on? PRP and exosomes? Different regions, states, different countries? Do you think some of my Sponsors were thrilled that P-Long came along? Well, it was an alternative to phalloplasty for guys who like to do PE exercises. By encouraging healthy competition, I play a role in lowering market costs and incentivizing innovation among the leaders in phalloplasty. I have weekly/monthly calls and can't wait for them to share some advances made that I'm not at liberty to speak of at present time (because they need to be fully tested). I'm clearly taking the sides of methods I know don't possess unacceptable levels of risk based on a knowledge that you simply do not have -- if that's bias, fine, I'll concede that much. And yes, all elective procedures are not without risk, but there is a line that when crossed, becomes unacceptable.

If this wasn't an open free flow of information, wouldn't I have simply deleted your posts and banned you? If you want to continue insulting this forum and its community, then you can go take a hike. We've been very receptive to your experience(s), but I've stated on innumerable occasions that this site is a No-Silicone-Zone, and so whenever the procedure itself is promoted or recommended, I've made it a forum policy to provide the necessary information to many newcomers who are simply unaware. If hypothetically PMMA (known to be non-carcinogenic) were to somehow have a 100% direct causality with cancer, not only would most ethical Doctors discontinue its use, but those who choose not to would be admonished and black-listed.

I've seen enough emails of Loria patients begging for assistance, and Doctors telling me the nightmares they've seen fixing his garbage-excuse for work. This is also true for the Penuma (Elist implant). However, I just don't get that level of scary reporting from the aforementioned procedures I support (like HA and PMMA and so on). Those mostly deal with aesthetic issues that never impact the health and/or function of the penis.

Oof, the kind of skin grafts required to fix a Loria procedure gone wrong, or the severity of late stage granulomas with something so synthetic, or migration into other parts of the body... I know of a forum veteran who I won't mention that is experiencing illness that may be related to silicone oil according to some back-channel sources, if I get confirmation that the diagnosis is confirmed (or get him willing to acknowledge it here), I will.

Lastly, you told me you didn't want to argue, and I made clear my post was a PSA in response to what may have been an intentional or unintentional promotion of this procedure (citing patents give people the impression of legitimacy), and it wasn't necessarily to argue with you. I also asked in my last post that we carry on, because as you said yourself, you wish not to argue. Everything I've said has been factual, honest, and informed. The only thing I said that I can't prove (but believe the evidence is strongly in favor of) is my belief that he sources/imports silicone illegally because there is no way he's charging those prices for the amount of volume being injected, even in bulk. Everything else were facts, plain and simple.

Based on your insistence that there are no more arguments, I am politely asking everyone please resume the topic at hand.

I agree with you to move on. I don’t really care to address many of the above comments since it will just keep this discussion going. However I do want to be clear that use of medications off label (the use of drugs outside the approved FDA intention) is in fact legal. Also to that point as the below link will highlight- doctors are not required to tell patients if the medications they are prescribing are being done in an “off label” manner. However Loria does.

journalofethics.ama-assn.org/article/inf...on-medications/2012-

07#:~:text=In%20fact%2C%20many%20physicians%20prescribe,of%20informed%20consent%20is%20introduced.

www.webmd.com/a-to-z-guides/features/off...hat-you-need-to-know

I understand that to those who are not medical this might come as a shock but I just wanted to clear that up that it is not illegal. So please make sure your sticking to your word when you profess to be educated on these matters and putting down healthcare workers and their educations when it’s us who care for you and your loved ones.

I also wanna comment that I don’t think you’re a bad dude. I appreciate that you care and take a strong stance in your opinion. I do believe you truly dislike Loria and his practice and want to convince guys to avoid him. I completely disagree with your view but you’re entitled to feel how you do.
I encourage everyone to not take your word nor my word and to do their own research and speak to patients from all companies to get their experiences.

No one once disputed the use of dermal fillers off-label as being legal or illegal. Every Sponsor, like most cosmetic doctors & surgeons, use fillers off-label and the FDA is well aware and typically don't intervene. Many medications are prescribed off-label all the time. No one here is shocked, it's common knowledge and It doesn't take an ICU Nurse to know this... not only does this make you sound embarrassingly pretentious, but makes me believe you didn't bother to read a word I typed, and yet still had the audacity to reply with something that was never being argued in the first place.

My point overall was NOT about off-label use, but rather my suspicion that he's acquired (i.e. imported) non-FDA approved silicone oil, which would then make it a matter of legality. You would have known this if you read what I typed, but again, I feel like you're selectively ignoring details in my posts for whatever reason(??). The amount of volume he injects (60cc's-100cc's +) using Silikon1000 is cost prohibitive, yet he somehow offers competitive market rates for girth enhancement... this explains my skepticism about what he's injecting people with. I'm not claiming I know with certainty that this is going on, and maybe never will, but his history of being a liar and his reckless willingness of injecting silicone oil AT ALL in addition to the cost-per-volume disparity, who wouldn't ask questions?

My other contention was that silicone oil is a dangerous choice of filler for high volume in the penis from various credible sources over decades monitoring the topic of male phalloplasty. When the Penuma Implant has complications, you usually see it in the first year or two so you tend to see more negative reports more frequently; the scary part about something like silicone oil is that it can take 3, 5, or more years for serious complications to manifest. The lymphatic system is going to go through hell, especially if this isn't medical-grade silicone oil (even then it wouldn't matter a whole lot). Risks like silicone migration (embolisms are no joke), or granulomas that are much more difficult to treat because the matter is oil and not tissue, and so on, are real problems I hear about from credible sources.

In hopefully what will be my last summary on this matter: (1) silicone oil is bad as a penile filler and (2) I have suspicions of his actual filler concoction (despite my inability to prove it). Every other sane, ethical Doctor uses brand name fillers that come in neatly packaged boxes. Dr. Loria is now not only a "Cosmetic Surgeon" (which he isn't) but a Pharmaceutical Manufacturer as well? I mean, come on man.

This will be the third time I politely ask you resume the topic at hand, my response was made to clear up what was most definitely a misunderstanding on your part (off-label legality was never the issue). Now that I've cleared that up in addition to reiterating my sentiments in fewer paragraphs so that my stance is understood, and not something I care to argue, carry on. I don't think you're a bad person or an unappreciated forum member either, and I sincerely hope you don't ever have to deal with complications that stem from your injections (and maybe you never will) -- my comments were aimed at Loria and his quackery is all. Again, let's carry on.

To preface this lengthy response, all posts made on this site are under my domain. I can delete, move, or edit any content as I please at my discretion, with no obligation to provide anyone a reason whatsoever. I'm not sure what made you believe telling the site's Owner to "stop" was going to achieve, especially if we wish to keep the discourse constructive, meaningful, and mature. Yes this is your Progress Report, but you don't own the server space that this topic resides in, and for as long as I believe it is relevant (and within Forum Rules), I'll allow you to have some level of ownership of it. However, myself & the Moderation Team are the final arbiters and we can insert ourselves in any topic if & when necessary.

I wouldn't have reiterated my position had you not mentioned this dangerous "patented filler," which came off as a means of validating this procedure (whether intentional or not). High volume silicone oil in the penis is bad bad bad. It'd be extremely irresponsible for me to stand idly by to allow my readership to believe this methodology has any merit. Hell, his own patent states:

1. A filler composition comprising:
(a) 1% to 80% of a silicone oil having a viscosity from 12500-30000 centistokes (cSt);
(b) 20% to 99% of water; and
(c) 0.005% to 10% of a thickening agent

I mean, is this a joke? Can anyone with patent knowledge please explain why there seems to be a "toss up" in the ratio of ingredients you may get injected? I read the whole patent and a lot of it was speculation on which viscosities would prove more effective, but nothing about exactly what you're getting. Furthermore, no mention of Silikon1000, which further validates my suspicions he's sourcing cheaper silicone oil like that other Clinic I won't name in Mexico (not Avanti Derma). If he were importing Chinese cement, would you even know? Even if he insists it's Silikon1000, there would be no way for you to know because the concoction was previously formulated in a lab, and you are effectively getting a mystery cocktail. And if he could prove it 100%, it'd still be the worst possible choice of filler to have injected. It's a lose-lose proposition.

Why is it that with every other ethical Doctor, you know exactly what you're getting, but with this Loria guy, it feels like you're at a used-car dealership constantly getting the runaround?

Not to mention that this "proprietary/patented" filler isn't trialed, studied, or peer-reviewed, much less distributed through an actual major manufacturer, although we do have a history of it being a poor quality choice for penile enhancement (silicone oil) from both former patients & experts alike.

If there is indeed no Silikon1000 (and instead an alternative silicone oil), he can't even use the off-label loophole, and since the FDA regulates dermal fillers as medical devices, this may be potentially be some kind of an infraction of sorts. Doctors do and have had license revocations, and even worse, I've read articles on rogue Doctors getting arrested for going beyond the scope of mere malpractice.

He takes advantage of many men who are desperate for size, that's how Dr. Elist made his millions, by luring them into a method that provides the Doctor the highest profit margins at the cost of higher risks to the patient. Loria does so by being one of the biggest investors in penis enlargement advertising on Google that I know of, which I've based off of just how frequently his ads show up whenever I'm running SEO audits. This is how he pulls them in before they get a chance of finding a place like the PhalloBoards because GoogleAds are always listed first (sadly). His fishing lure extends even further, when his site suggested (not sure if it's still there, I refuse to give his website anymore clicks) that gains of 5 inches in length were possible, on top of the absurd amount of girth achievable via silicone oil -- can you picture how an unsuspecting, uninformed and desperate guy might make the phone call the next morning oblivious to the nuances, history, and risks of this kind of elective procedure?

For a guy who blatantly lied and actually used the term "Cosmetic Surgeon" on his website (not sure if it's still there), that tells you all you need to know -- a surgeon has a much higher level of training and accreditation, with the widest scope of medical skill, and Loria spent most his career as a (non-surgeon) Hair Restoration specialist.

I've made clear on many occasions that the PhalloBoards is a No-Silicone-Zone but that doesn't mean men can't share their experiences, good or bad -- it means that this site and all its prestigious Dermatologists, Plastic Surgeons, and Urologists have unanimously condemned the use of high volume silicone oil in the penis. I wasn't arguing with you, it was a Public Service Announcement (PSA) type of reply.

By the way, telling the site's Administrator to "Stop" is like asking a Cop to "Stop" giving you warning tickets because you went slightly above the speed limit. The analogy works the same here, I'm not going to prevent you from posting your experiences despite my disdain for Loria, because the free flow of information is critical... but the moment you assert anything that could validate this procedure will run the risk of misleading my readership, and I refuse to put them in harm's way. So while you may not have been WAY over the speed limit (i.e. violating forum rules and such), any comments that lend credence to this unacceptably risky procedure will receive a warning, every time.

Also food for thought: Why not take money from the Elists and Lorias of the world (who I could even justifiably charge at a premium and I have no doubt they'd pay given their propensity to pump funds into online marketing). What's stopping me from deleting all their negative comments, deleting comments of people critical of these actions, so that all the newcomers to the PhalloBoards wouldn't be the wiser? While I'm by no means rich/wealthy, what I'd charge both Elist & Loria for "airtime" on this platform would probably allow me to make monthly payments on an Aston Martin. However, I'd much rather preserve the integrity of this site, as I'm extremely averse to deceptive practices, especially by those who we should feel we can put our trust in (physicians, law enforcement, politicians, etc). When they cross the line, someone should hold them accountable. In this small niche of a topic (medical male enhancement), I've taken on that responsibility, and have done so successfully for over a decade.

I ask we resume the topic at hand -- EricPig's experience(s) and not so much the merit of the procedure itself (unless of course you want me to continuously contest any assertion that gives this "mad science" any credibility). As you said yourself EricPig, you wish not to argue, and I explained why I made the reply I did. So let's settle it here and carry on, thanks.

I can’t think of any difference in any HA dermal filler that make one or another less likely to migrate I think the filler is irrelevant to migration possibilities. They are all a gel. You can’t tell the difference in your hand and they will certainly migrate the same.

PhalloFILL wrote: Just a little insight on my observation/opinion on the “feel” or “firmness” of different HA dermal fillers….

I’ve been injecting dermal fillers for 18 years. Of course 15 if this was primarily in the face before I developed the Phallofill enhancement. The g prime is very important when injecting the delicate eye area versus the lips. However I believe it’s less relevant when it comes to the penis. Different dermal fillers do have a different “g prime” which is the ability of the dermal filler to flatten under pressure. But, when injecting dermal filler into the penis between the correct layers of fascia is doesn’t make a difference how firm the dermal filler is. You just can’t detect the difference. Blood is not firm but the Dartos and bucks fascia hold the penis very rigid when engorged with blood. The dermal filler should be placed below the fascia. So theoretically if we could get saline water to stay in place behind the layers of facia that hold the penis rigid, that fluid would still be firm with an erection. This is what I would call a “naturally firm” feeling. Undetectable, as the penis was intended to feel. I’ve experimented with multiple HA dermal fillers and when injected the same they always feel the same when the penis is erect. The reason I experimented is because some HA dermal fillers have a higher rate of adverse events and so we settled on Revanesse Versa not because of its g prime which is very similar to JuveDerm ultra plus, but because if it’s safety profile. An added reason is because the syringes are 1.2 ml rather than 1.0 ml.

That being said… some of you may say that PMMA is more firm. And I don’t doubt that. From my experience with seeing patients after PMMA injections it is more rigid…. But it feels more like cement at times. Not all of the time in every patient. But it happens to be more firm than what I perceive as natural to a fair amount of people. I see people regularly that want me to “hide” the cement feeling in their penis with HA dermal filler which feels more natural.

Long winded point I was trying to make is that I don’t think you should be able to recognize a difference in the HA dermal fillers if they are injected correctly behind the fascia and not on top of the fascia which can make it feel like a water balloon. The pressure from the Erection pushing whatever the product is up against the fascia is going to give a naturally firm feeling.

This is a great explanation. What about the ability for the filler to migrate? It seems that volux is far less susceptible to migration. Is that correct?

Just a little insight on my observation/opinion on the “feel” or “firmness” of different HA dermal fillers….

I’ve been injecting dermal fillers for 18 years. Of course 15 if this was primarily in the face before I developed the Phallofill enhancement. The g prime is very important when injecting the delicate eye area versus the lips. However I believe it’s less relevant when it comes to the penis. Different dermal fillers do have a different “g prime” which is the ability of the dermal filler to flatten under pressure. But, when injecting dermal filler into the penis between the correct layers of fascia is doesn’t make a difference how firm the dermal filler is. You just can’t detect the difference. Blood is not firm but the Dartos and bucks fascia hold the penis very rigid when engorged with blood. The dermal filler should be placed below the fascia. So theoretically if we could get saline water to stay in place behind the layers of facia that hold the penis rigid, that fluid would still be firm with an erection. This is what I would call a “naturally firm” feeling. Undetectable, as the penis was intended to feel. I’ve experimented with multiple HA dermal fillers and when injected the same they always feel the same when the penis is erect. The reason I experimented is because some HA dermal fillers have a higher rate of adverse events and so we settled on Revanesse Versa not because of its g prime which is very similar to JuveDerm ultra plus, but because if it’s safety profile. An added reason is because the syringes are 1.2 ml rather than 1.0 ml.

That being said… some of you may say that PMMA is more firm. And I don’t doubt that. From my experience with seeing patients after PMMA injections it is more rigid…. But it feels more like cement at times. Not all of the time in every patient. But it happens to be more firm than what I perceive as natural to a fair amount of people. I see people regularly that want me to “hide” the cement feeling in their penis with HA dermal filler which feels more natural.

Long winded point I was trying to make is that I don’t think you should be able to recognize a difference in the HA dermal fillers if they are injected correctly behind the fascia and not on top of the fascia which can make it feel like a water balloon. The pressure from the Erection pushing whatever the product is up against the fascia is going to give a naturally firm feeling.

bicboyanaconda733 wrote: Hi Southbay, I have recently had Megaderm skin graft for girth in South Korea, I'm 8 days in at the moment, my aftercare also consists of changing the compression bandage once a day. The actual implant is not as soft as I imagined it would be, it has a firmness to it. Do you think the compression bandage causes this? Meaning making it denser to conform to the shape of the penis? And then once it's shaped properly get softer and feel more natural over time?

I'm asking you this because in some ways the aftercare is related to my question and you have had the experience of the graft longer than I have. Your knowledge would be greatly appreciated ?

Wearing a bandage for longer is necessary for the dermal graft type of procedures. It will get softer as it integrates with your tissues, although I also had fat augmentation with mine so never really experienced any type of firmness. I have heard of this happening with Surgimend though and it will improve with time. If not, you can consider adding a layer filler. A doctor should be able to advise here.

Congratulations on a stellar result given your circumcision status (i.e. uncut), I do mean that.

The 147 cc's is incredibly high for PMMA, especially over 4 sessions (versus something like 7 rounds). That said, guys with longer shafts can take more product (so if you are a genuine 7"+ long, you can accommodate more without sacrificing aesthetics nearly as much). Furthermore, you were also aiming for a 7" overall girth, so this also explains the high volume of injection. To be frank, I'm actually surprised so much was injected given your uncircumcised status, but perhaps after Dr. Rupeka saw how your dermis "took" the filler, he became more confident that it wouldn't be a problem penis (in terms of uncut-vs-cut patients) in the long-run.

I want to make crystal clear that being uncircumcised DOES NOT mean you will have a poor or undesirable result. Many guys have had success being uncut in combination with dermal filler. HOWEVER, each foreskin is unique and what HAS BEEN OBSERVED are the odds of aesthetic irregularity in men who are uncircumcised increases dramatically, and also tend to be more difficult to manage/resolve, potentially requiring multiple touch-up rounds. This isn't from one source, this comes from multiple sources, namely the Sponsors of the PhalloBoards who've done the highest volume of procedures, affording them the sample size to confidently assert their claim(s).

Given the trend that most American men are circumcised (I've seen varying stats from 70%-90%, either way a VAST majority), it's easy to see why the uncircumcised dilemma is a relatively lesser known complication in the U.S. (versus Latin America or Europe). I should also point out that circumcised men are just as susceptible to undesirable outcomes (just like how anyone can end up with a bad haircut or hideous tattoo). however, not to the extent/rate at which uncircumcised men are. These observations have been made by arguably 3 of my most high-volume providers, and none of them even exchanged data with each other in this regard, so no external bias was presented. I know this opinion may be quite controversial (and I say this with no disrespect), but if I were uncircumcised and in the market for girth enhancement by way of injectable fillers, I would strongly consider (if not outright pursue) an adult circumcision (having it cut per my Phallo-Doc's recommendation). For those adamantly opposed to circumcisions of any kind (and I understand the personal reasons behind it), you'll simply have to assess your own risk threshold, and focus on low volumes early.

I would also strongly advise any future patients who seek out Bellafill providers like Dr. Rupeka, Dr. Nanda, Dr. Shafer, Dr. Carney, and so on, not to demand they inject beyond what they are comfortable with. My hunch is Dr. Rupeka knew he had a unit (penis) that would be compliant, and he predicted correctly. Other Clinics tend to have volume caps (I think Avanti Derma for a while would max out at 25cc's with rare exceptions, although I have no idea if this still remains to be the case) to avoid giving too much agency to the patient. You might think this seems counter-intuitive when you are a paying customer seeking out elective cosmetic procedures, but many of these places are more interested in a solid foundation + aesthetic result than to have a guy wind up with with a Frankenstein Dick because he was sure his dick could handle the bulk. I know some Clinics with even less in terms of how much they'll pump the first round. It isn't a cash flow/repeat business matter, phalloplasty's history has shown that a conservative approach often yields the best results.

That all said, kudos to Dr. Rupeka for identifying that he had a penis he could push the limits of what he typically injects, but please do not go into Youthology (or any other Bellafill provider) assuming you're going to get the 147cc treatment... in fact, @gsock27 's tailored action plan by Dr. Rupeka was an exception to the rule. Traditionally-speaking, you usually see 20-30cc's of PMMA the first round (depending on length & shape of shaft), with each subsequent round being slightly less in overall volume. This was the complete opposite with @gsock27 , where his last round had a whopping 60cc's (I almost wonder if this info was provided by way of typo or unintentional error, it's just remarkably high given the prior volumes injected).

Regardless, congrats again! Good to see that some uncircumcised men can overcome the anatomical/dermal obstacles that have plagued some results in the past.

Biggerp73 wrote: I was considering Avanti Derma when I lived in California. In fact last Fall I had paid the deposit and set an appointment. But life got in the way. The problem now that whereas Tijuana was less than a days drive away before, now that I am in South Texas, it's more like a 30 hour drive. Which is why I'm wondering about availability on this side of the country, near Reynosa, Matamoros, Monterrey, even as far as Mexico City.

Is flying out of the question? If you create an account on most major Airlines, they'll email occasional super discounts available during a limited window of time, all you'd need to do is fly from where you are in Texas to San Diego, then the drive only becomes 30minutes.

To be frank, PMMA in the States is patented by Suneva under the tradename Bellafill - arguably the most expensive dermal filler on the market (or at least this was true a few years ago, not sure how they compare now at wholesale). Combine this with the need to find a reputable practitioner (due to this being a specialized procedure utilizing a permanent product), I wouldn't cut corners.

Male phalloplasty is a luxury, niche, elective, and specialized procedure that isn't mainstream and therefore only practiced in high volume by a very limited number of skilled practitioners around the world. I'm not sure what you mean by "affordable" but cosmetic medicine of this type is as affordable as it's ever been, despite all the things I described about it. For newcomers, male phalloplasty was as much as 2x-3x more expensive in the 90s, 2000's, and early 2010's as it is now, with a higher rate & severity of complication. As I've mentioned in other posts, acquiring an inch in girth has the comparable effect of buying a sports car, except at a fraction of the price. Even after multiple rounds you would never likely reach half the price of said-sports car.

Best deal I know of at present time is Jiva Med Spa offering 10% off their Bellafill, but they are all the way up in Ohio.

Good luck.

Coastalcock wrote: Quick update at two weeks , the filler that was migrating to the left side while I was having to use a glans ring awaiting the new sleeve is mostly centered back in place now, round two filler and correction will even everything out perfectly I imagine. Barely noticeable and doesn’t effect performance at all , I believe it occurred for two reasons, one there is still available space for filler to move , so it did when not pressed into place to “set”, two the way my member naturally sits while sleeping is on its left side allowing gravity to assist in this.

Still very happy so far, may try for new measurements today if I get a chance .

These are the type of comments I continue to use as an opportunity to remind readers (specifically those who have never had any work done) that at least one follow-up appointment is almost 100% inevitable with filler injections, typically seen as a "touch-up" (with the potential for more girth if desired).

Due to the dynamic nature of our penis (shrinks, grows, hard, soft, hangs left or right and so on), in conjunction with the difficulty to have an A+ rating on commitment to post-op protocol (properly massaging unit at regular intervals despite life & work obligations), PLUS the slight degree of unpredictability of how your shaft "takes" dermal fillers (regardless of physician & filler type), injectable phalloplasty lends itself to the near inevitability of a subsequent appointment (and possibly a third).

I remind this to readers so they understand that injectable phalloplasty is a process and seldom (if ever) a one-stop shop. More importantly however, is being prepared financially and logistically for at least a year to achieve an end-result that both yields satisfactory girth and aesthetics.

The great thing with Hyaluronic Acid (HA) is that when your foundation is set (and there is a degree of elastin & collagen that will play a role in long-term retention even if you do lose some size), you'll only have to periodically top-off minor imperfections and nominal girth loss (much like you keep your car tires topped off to the correct PSI) with much less volume than your original procedure, which should in turn keep costs manageable with the peace of mind of having arguably the safest filler option on the market inside you (HA naturally occurs in the body in-fact).

@Coastalcock good to hear things are going good overall, thanks for keeping us up to date.