TOPIC: Considering Belladerm--please advise

Maximus wrote: In case it might be helpful to others, I\'m copying and pasting an excerpt from an email exchange I had with Dr Rosenthal, June 2012.

Max

My Question:
Does the belloderm absorb/dissolve/decrease significantly over time, resulting in the need for another procedure? 'If so, how long does it last?

Response:
I have been using Belladerm for about 3 years and longterm appears to have very little shrinkage compared to Alloderm. The amount of shrinkage is variable and seems to be most in smokers.

It is my experience with PE doctors (and I\'ve been in this game for close to 20 years now) that they are overly optimistic and are prone to shading the truth.
I would trust anonymous anecdotal reports on the Internet over what any of these doctors say any day. Sad but true.

Maximus wrote: In case it might be helpful to others, I\'m copying and pasting an excerpt from an email exchange I had with Dr Rosenthal, June 2012.

Max

My Question:
Does the belloderm absorb/dissolve/decrease significantly over time, resulting in the need for another procedure? If so, how long does it last?

Response:
I have been using Belladerm for about 3 years and longterm appears to have very little shrinkage compared to Alloderm. The amount of shrinkage is variable and seems to be most in smokers.

3 years isn\'t long term. But you have to take what he says with a huge pinch of salt. If you read his website he says he\'s been using Alloderm since 1998 and in 2005 when he update his website he said:
\"The results from penis lengthening and penis widening are expected to be permanent.\"
So how come after 7 years of use he was still saying Alloderm is expected to be permanent, when he is now saying that Belladerm seems better after only using it for 3 years!
I\'m sure he\'s a good Dr and nice man, but we know from his history (his defense when working for Rosenstein was I was just an employee!) that he\'s prepared to do what it takes to earn a living. Why was he saying on is website that Alloderm was expected to be permanent when we know that in this application it isn\'t. To suggest Belladerm is any different seems to be nothing more than a marketing ploy. If he was still claiming Alloderm was permanent after 7 years of use, then how can you trust what he says about Belladerm?
Belladerm in the same as Alloderm. The difference is simple in that one is taken from dead people and other living. The process of making the grafts is otherwise the same. The key is that by using a living donor meant that Belladerm could enter the market without infringing on any patents and at a lower cost. It also comes in set sizes so the surgeon knows exactly what he getting, whilst Alloderm grafts come in irregular sizes. Those are the reasons that Belladerm is now being used and not because the grafts survive better.
I think this forum has had just two Belladerm patients who have detailed their progress from before the surgery until long after it and both saw lots of absorption, one saw all his graft absorb. Maybe it was just coincidence but logic tells you it wasn\'t. Allografts don\'t do well in dynamic organs, hence they aren\'t used in the lips anymore. This isn\'t going to change when a surgeon simply changes brands.
You should ask Dr Rosenthal why he thinks Bella survives better? Does he have any data to support this or is it mere speculation? How often do his patients report back to him their losses? I\'d imagine that happens incredibly rarely and if so, then how on earth can he know about graft survival rates?

Some most excellent points.

I did ask him roughly what proportion of his patients return for a second surgery due to absorption or for any other reason. That question wasn\'t answered.

I have talked to Dr. R and I was not impressed. He told me the same Bullshit MOST of these Dr.\'s tell you. I had the implant then, and he was going to remove it and do a lig cut and Belladerm. He told me to expect a minimum of ONE Inch increase in Erect length, BULL SHIT! CRAP.....they are ALL lying, and I mean ALL. Some Dr\'s are lying LESS than others....That is the only difference...wake up guys!

Mustang What did you have and was it from Dr R??

No, I had the horrible elist implant and dr r was going to remove it, do a lig cut and put in Belladerm. I had phone calls with him a few times and he made promises that I knew were false, like the Inch increase. So I decided not to go with him.

At this point, every single PE dr had made promises to me that did not come true the way they initially told me. Dr C has been the closest to his claims and I will go and see him again so I can finish my journey.

For what it\'s worth - when I asked Dr. Reed what my best options were after taking out my fibrotic graft to rebuild the Girth, he told me his best advice was to do nothing after that. Just have it removed and leave my penis alone. On one hand I was surprised this was coming from him; on the other hand I appreciated he was being really direct (subtext being nothing out there is all that great right now, leave yourself alone and go home. -but maybe I am over reading that). I know his history over the past 20 years went from FFT, to DFG\'s, to Alloderm and then Belladerm (with a very short stint doing implants years ago).

Just thought I\'d post because people are asking. Yes, my Belladerm has turned into a hard strip on the top of my penis, only about an Inch wide now... as if it shrunk laterally and up the sides. Still more Girth than before, but now very aware of it and it is a lot harder. It started a the 1 year mark. It\'s been 1.5 years now. I\'m not buying the smoking thing, only because I started smoking when this started happening... freaking me out... and I stopped after a bit anyway. Dr. R injected a steroid in an area towards the top which had amased some scar tissue, and it shrunk / softened. I\'m to go back for 2 more treatments.

ugh

flybynight wrote: Just thought I\'d post because people are asking. Yes, my Belladerm has turned into a hard strip on the top of my penis, only about an Inch wide now... as if it shrunk laterally and up the sides. Still more Girth than before, but now very aware of it and it is a lot harder. It started a the 1 year mark. It\'s been 1.5 years now. I\'m not buying the smoking thing, only because I started smoking when this started happening... freaking me out... and I stopped after a bit anyway. Dr. R injected a steroid in an area towards the top which had amased some scar tissue, and it shrunk / softened. I\'m to go back for 2 more treatments.

ugh

Sorry to hear of your problems.

The same thing happened to the infamous Chad Hedman (you may or may not know of him.)

How much did you gain from the surgery and are these gains stable or has there been shrinkage?

Hey All,

My two cents: I have to say Hoddle makes a good argument. The absorption of Bella or trading length for girth (or whatever the hell makes you lose girth) surprised me over time. I couldn\'t say for sure what my results would be anymore as I\'ve \"commingled\" products. In retrospect, with the high cost with a poor risk benefit ratio, I wouldn\'t go that route again. However, Dr R was a good surgeon, and provided good customer service. I\'m not sure how much real empirical evidence he\'s collected, as I think this is a one time surgery for most of his patients, so his lack of publishing longitudinal studies for peer review doesn\'t surprise me-

disclosure:
I\'m going in for round 3 PMMA (linnea) in a few weeks, so I guess I\'m quite a risk taker

ive had Belladerm done by dr.rosenthal. I was very happy with him as a doctor and have nothing bad to say about him.

I have also had 3 rounds of PMMA done now and if i could go back i would have just done the PMMA instead of the Belladerm. When you compare cost, Girth increase and recovery time there is no comparison. PMMA is alot better!!!

I had Belladerm in August 2010, in fact I spoke to Kingpin as I had backed out just before surgery, then following our discussion decided to proceed.

This was a mistake. If I have one piece of advice for any guy especially a young guy who has not yet had kids - leave your Dick alone!

I had three procedures, curvature correction (curved to the left), lig detachment and Belladerm implant. Following surgery I lost an Inch in length, so I did the stretching exercises and after a few months got back to my original length (6.0), but no more as the length of the implant protruded out on the end.

I noticed after 6 months that the Belladerm was being absorbed but it was very little and honestly I was ok with it as the implant which was obvious and becoming less obvious, more natural. There was a period of about a year when I was relatively happy with the appearance...........appearance, because during this time I discovered a problem.

The nerves which had been severed during the surgery did not heal the loss of feeling on the top side of the shaft never returned. Dr R told me on the way back from surgery to the hotel that there would be no feeling and that \"the tip was the business end anyway\".....not so, the effect even though total loss of feeling is only on the top of the shaft is that it is not possible for me to ejaculate during intercourse......ever, this can be done only through manual stimulation of the tip.

So if you are young, and you want to have kids, try and figure out how you are going to get that done...

So now two years later, yes the Belladerm is absorbing.....which would be ok.....BUT it doesn\'t simply shrink in thickness, it also shrinks in length and width, so it is pulling on the shaft....curling my Erect penis up and back, at a surprising rate. I now have a strange upward and to the left curl...which is getting worse.Aug 2010 (pre) stats:Natural curve to the left6.0” length4.0-4.25 Girth Sept 2011 stats:Straight!!6.0” length (after 2 months of weights)4.75 Girth J Sept 2012 stats:Curve to the leftAnd curved upwards especially the head5.0” length4.625 Girth
-$10,000

I admit at one year I was happy with the shape and size, I thought I would get to keep that, even though I was not able to ejaculate during penetration. Now, however two years later I see it curving upwards towards the implant more every morning when I wake with an Erection. I am educated, successful and ………….single, and I expect I will probably stay that way - it’s embarrassing, stupid……..where I will end up with this is anyones guess

Hi Justave

Sorry things haven\'t worked out as you\'d have liked. Have you tried pumping to try and stretch the contracting graft material. It sound like this is most likely what is causing the curve. Maybe a combination to pumping and all day stretching might lengthen the graft material and help you get your length back.

Hi Hoddle10
Thanks for the advise, I have started streaching again, will let you know how it turns out.....don\'t have a pump....will look around.

thanks

Justave: I\'m in exactly the same boat... to the point I want to figure out exactly where he sutured this stupid graft at the base and have it severed (or removed). It shortened my length and I have the same curl upwards. If you ever read this again, tell me, does the now bare graft have a cord like protrusion at the top of the shaft at the base?

People, it\'s literally like tying a rope around the head of your penis and pulling it back like the reins on a horse towards the base, over the top. That\'s the lost length. And the damn graft (which I assume is this cord like structure post tissue dissolving for a year) is strong as hell. When you\'re erect, you can definitely see it is the cause of the bend. I\'ve been doing weights and everything to try and stretch it. It\'s as if the belladerm tissue was attached to some other type of material which travels from on top of the base of the penis... to the head... and once the belladerm is gone, just this weird strip remains.

It\'s what you say shrunk... and you may be right, in addition to all the other tissue around it dissolving.

guys, I\'m all for freedom of enhancement... like justave, I was fine and happy for a few months. When they say most guys later regret these procedures, they are correct.

Why? Because the procedures are inept and these docs lie like whores. They just see 10k in the room, that\'s it. The DAY someone actually comes up with a procedure which has a proven track record and doesn\'t scar the patient, guess what? That satisfaction rate will climb quick.

Kingpin, if you had belladerm with Dr. Rosenthal... and moved on to PMMA, is the implication here that belladerm didn\'t work for you as well? \"very happy with him as a doctor\"... but you felt it necessary to have a second procedure after the original. We are to assume you weren\'t happy with the Belladerm procedure, but loved the personality of the doc. Alright then.

Nothing like traveling to TJ to have a PMMA injected in your dick because it\'s illegal stateside.

www.drelist.com/pmma-injection-penile for some PMMA info.