TOPIC: 125um microspheres and collogen

i stop to think about the suspension agent, CMC, its troublesome. yet I\'ve shot underground lab steroids sterilized in an oven. Ive come up with a secondary approach, Most of the testosterone i shoot into my quads is comprised of testosterone cypionate ester powder, USP pharmacy grade grape seed oil, and 0.9% benzyl alcohol to stop and bacteria. now I\'ve been shooting this stuff for 10 yrs and never had a problem, instead of using CMC, why not just suspend the PMMA beads in the USP grapseed oil,add 0.9%benzyl alcohol to the mix, and walla, I\'m injecting something that i know has worked for me for 10 yrs... it would cut the need for sterilizing CMC powder which would be 410$, and i would only be left with sterilizing the PMMA powder with E.O.

ARTEFILL uses bovine collogen
metacrill uses CMC,
i might use USP grapeseed oil with 0.9% benzyl alcohol.
thier are prolly 4 other suspention agents that could be used for PMMA. if not more. i think i need to think outside the box on suspention agents.

Just to add some more information about PMMA\'s products the manufacturers add some elements in their products which will reduce the possibilities of clustering of the PMMA beads (which means it will reduce the rate of lumps formations) e.g. as far as i know :-

(EDTA) in Metacrill.

(Tween 80+Tween 20) in Artefill.

\"Solubility in other solvents, soluble in ethanol, cottonseed oil, corn oil, ethyl acetate, ... Polysorbate 80 is often used in food and other products as an emulsifier.\"

I have found several sources of USP grade polysorbate80 microbial free for injection, and the above statment shows it is soluble in oil, Gear or\"juice\" or \"suace\" or otherwise known as Steroids use, rapeseed,grapeseed,cottonseed, and several other oils, so as a solvent and dispersent in the oil polysorbate80 might work, will have to see, i plan on using sterile polysacharide synovial fluid oil with benzyl alcohol \"a mild solvent \" i already have, i got it from painlesspumps.com its just sterile oil for injection, all i need to do is test a 1/4 a gram of PMMA into 1cc of my oil to see is it can homogenouse, if not ill add polysorbate80 usp.. i could find nothing readlly on edta usp high grade for sale.


IS THE edta your talking about usp grade calcium disodium?which is the exact type, and name, is it the EDTA salt, or stabilizer salution, i see some USP grades, but other mixes in the chart say thier for auqeous salution or stabilizer salution.
EDTA Disodium Salt, 0.005 M Solution500 ml$76.67E-155EDTA Disodium Salt, 0.005 M Solution4 L$147.34E-180EDTA Disodium Salt, 0.015 M Solution500 ml$76.67E-180EDTA Disodium Salt, 0.015 M Solution4 L$147.34E-185EDTA Disodium Salt, 0.0575 N Solution500 ml$77.20E-185EDTA Disodium Salt, 0.0575 N Solution4 L$147.34E-190EDTA Disodium Salt, 0.06 M Solution500 ml$76.67E-190EDTA Disodium Salt, 0.06 M Solution4 L$147.34E-195EDTA Disodium Salt, 0.115 M Solution500 ml$76.67E-195EDTA Disodium Salt, 0.115 M Solution4 L$147.34E-105EDTA Disodium, 0.01 M Solution500 ml$83.43E-105EDTA Disodium, 0.01 M Solution6 x 500 ml$188.93E-105EDTA Disodium, 0.01 M Solution4 L$170.63E-105EDTA Disodium, 0.01 M Solution4 x 4 L$426.45E-110EDTA Disodium, 0.01 M Solution500 ml$83.43E-110EDTA Disodium, 0.01 M Solution6 x 500 ml$188.93E-110EDTA Disodium, 0.01 M Solution4 L$170.63E-110EDTA Disodium, 0.01 M Solution4 x 4 L$426.45E-112EDTA Disodium, 0.05 M Solution500 ml$83.43E-112EDTA Disodium, 0.05 M Solution6 x 500 ml$188.93E-112EDTA Disodium, 0.05 M Solution4 L$170.63E-112EDTA Disodium, 0.05 M Solution4 x 4 L$426.45E-115EDTA Disodium, 0.0575 M Solution500 ml$83.43E-115EDTA Disodium, 0.0575 M Solution6 x 500 ml$188.93E-115EDTA Disodium, 0.0575 M Solution4 L$170.63E-115EDTA Disodium, 0.0575 M Solution4 x 4 L$426.45E-120EDTA Disodium, 0.1 M Solution500 ml$83.43E-120EDTA Disodium, 0.1 M Solution6 x 500 ml$188.93E-120EDTA Disodium, 0.1 M Solution4 L$170.63E-120EDTA Disodium, 0.1 M Solution4 x 4 L$426.45E-176EDTA Disodium, 0.5 M Solution100 ml$95.24E-091EDTA Disodium, 10% (w/v) Solution125 ml$83.43E-091EDTA Disodium, 10% (w/v) Solution500 ml$100.53E-200EDTA Disodium, 2.5% (w/v) Aqueous Solution125 ml$83.43E-200EDTA Disodium, 2.5% (w/v) Aqueous Solution500 ml$100.53E-220EDTA Stabilizer Solution, 500 g/L125 ml$88.19E-220EDTA Stabilizer Solution, 500 g/L

were you at smartman?

4johnybravo wrote: were you at smartman?

Please keep in mind Smartman take\'s time out of his day to voluntarily offer his vast knowledge & insight into matters pertaining to PMMA (and other topics as well). He\'s not obliged to respond to a topic quickly, or to respond at all. Should he choose to respond, he will at his convenience.

yes you are correct, i should not be be so eager or think he should respond so fast. forgive me,

I have found a company in California, on labor day of all days who was open, and agreed to do my 100% ethylene oxide vacuum AND vibrate for 350$, he gave me a break on my first time since I\'m not a company and just an individual. he has gas permeable bags and all. he said the vibrating was to agitate the gas around the powders particles, and the vacuum was to help remove most the gas, but advised a waiting period before mixing and injecting just as you did Smartman. but this is great, he is 50$ cheaper than the e-beam guy, and it wont cross link, or start the oxidative process on the micro spheres. however after my first time, I think the price is gonna go up to about 5-6 maybe 700, but I don\'t have to use two different companys, i can have all my plastic funnels,and powders done at the same place and be done with it. i told him it would be about 500 grams of powder for each material he said that\'s fine.

If I\'m gonna use cmc, I still need to find that rite type of edetate, and in USP grade. I wonder if I actually need EDTA, I was thinking that when i mix the stuff up I\'m going to use it right away, and was thinking maybe metacrill used EDTA to prevent clumping during shelf storage, but since mine will be mixed syringe to syringe, with a luer to luer transfer mixer adapter from Tulip Medical, theirs no way that the micros spheres have a enough gravity weight to settle out of the thick suspension gel.

Hi 4johnybravo, sorry for being away I am on my vacation, and I will be away for 2-3 wks, and my advice to you if you are going ahead with the injection anyway, just try a tiny amount injected in your forearm first and wait for 4-6 wks and check the result, and plz just try to get the right conc. 30% and not more and not to forget everything under a sterile condition.

just a small update, last night I filled a one cc syringe with 30units of 40 micron beads, and 70 units of sterile oil with 0.9 percent benzyl alcohol in it to help bacteria if any should be their, injected into the inner side of my forearm back near my elbow area. I could see that when i added the oil to the powder in the syringe that that the two immediately became homogeneous with NO problem, my only concern is the small amount of benzyl alcohol may harm the beads, like melt or mi shape some of them, but this a small concentration of benzyle alcohol. I am trying at the moment to get ahold of a girl at this lab i know of who has an SEM microscope, i wanna double check the smoothness of the beads, i know the size of the beads is within 95% of 40um, and am told they are smooth, but i wanna see for myself, so I\'m going to try and get this girl to let me mail her a small sample of beads to place in the SEM and take some pictures and e-mail me back the results so i can judge for myself if the surface is smooth enough or too rough.

I\'m talking to another company right now who also sell these micro spheres and they say that the beads are treated to have smooth surface also so we will see.

Hi 4johnybravo,

I have found something interesting :- a hollow PMMA beads which can be mixed with even a low viscosity carrier without clumping of the beads i.e. almost no lumps , and there is a company who make these hollow beads Sensient Technology ( Covabead) , but we have to check their prices.

thats cool smart man my keyboard is busted so im typing with the on screen key board rite now and it sucks but i will look into that and i will also wright a detailed conversation i had with one of gottfried lamperles relatives stefan lamperle who is and own patens on making pmma spheres smooth on the surface and he gave me his sellphone number and said call anytime. but the main bit of knowledge i got from the phone convo was that surface smoothness is not that important so much as the beads just being round and no smaller than 30um. he said it would be just a tad bit harder fpr the collogen to cover the bead but not by allot he was more concerned that my beads needed to not have particle irregularitys.i am using cospheric.coms\' 38-40 um beads it costs 120 bucks for 10 grams.



i found this website forum.liyasoap.com.ua/t410-topic cova beads look smooth sorta but are porous.

i wonder, if put in order which would weigh more
1 cubic Inch of muscle,
1 cubic Inch of fat
1cubic Inch of cartilage
1cubic Inch of PMMA covered in collagen and fibrous tissue\'

I wonder if PMMA with collagen and fibrous tissue weigh more than fat or muscle, just was wondering if i in total injected over the course of a year 1lb of PMMA, would the collagen plus PMMA and fibrous tissue weigh more than what fat more muscle does or less? would be awesome if its less, because i could put on size but lower weight you see.

next question
if you have a 1cc of 30% \"metacrill\" for example only 30% of that cc is PMMA, so to make things easier i will scale this question up to ten cc\'s so we have a 10 cc vial, of that 10 cc vial we have 3cc\'s that is actually plastic powder, now if you were to try and imagine that the 10 cc vial would magically encapsulate the 3cc\'s of PMMA micro spheres in the vial with collagen and fibrous tissue, how much would it all together be in the vial? 6cc\'s with the PMMA microspheres covered in fibrous tissue and collagen? i guess the questions is realistically how much does fibrous tissue and collagen account for? exactly double? a little more than double the PMMA powder or a little less than double?

well well, a little update, its been weeks several weeks since my first homebewered PMMA injection into my forarm. i notice a slight rise in the surface area of the skin. its pleasant, doesnt hurt, and its visually stimulating seeing the permamnents change. the spot i injected just feels normal and squishy. Now, the dirt. Cospheric.com charges 127$/10grams of 38-45um beads at 90% free of microspheres smaller than 30um, and for 180$/10grams of microspheres that is 95%+ free of particles smaller than 20microns so im going to start buying the extra filtered microspheres. I have has a dam shitstorm of problems with trying to find a company who will accually sell an individual \"P\"grade carboxymethylcelluslose. DOW,cpkelco,parchem,ashalnd and many other wont sell to me becuase i dont have a tax id number or a business adress. the cmc i got was accually not pharmacy grade but usp food grade which is why i didnt use it.

can i substitute edta with tween 80 or 20 if i used cmc?

Hi 4johnybravo,

Yes you can use the Tween 80 ( which acts as an emulsifier, which reduce the binding strength, prevent or at least reduce precipitation and increased the viscosity of the carrier ) instead of EDTA with the CMC.

E.g. drug \"Lupron\" by injection.

Check this esp. in the bottom of this site :-

www.rxmed.com/b.main/b2.pharmaceutical/b.../LUPRON%20DEPOT.html


Another example in \"Advil\" (as suspension for children) :-

Check also the bottom of this site :-

chealth.canoe.ca/drug_info_details.asp?brand_name_id=1627&rot=4

The last example is used in an eye drop :-

dailymed.nlm.nih.gov/dailymed/drugInfo.cfm?id=75589