TOPIC: New HA filler claiming to last up to 5 years

The only reason to a Dr in my opinion is if you think it is a liquid and can be aspirated (which I doubt) or to discuss Circumcision. They aren\'t going to be able to tell you what it is and it\'s in the right layer.

The first part of this sentence is correct, the second part about the layer is not entirely correct. You don\'t need to see Dr Horn to know what layer it is in, but why not, you are a patient of ours and there is no charge to see him.
It will be quite easy to tell if it is injected just under the skin. You can even work this out for yourself if you need directions 07426040086. Francis.

Suks Minhas maybe > agree.
Dr Ralph's clinic to be unhelpful [disagree] and over priced [agree].

Androfill wrote:
The first part of this sentence is correct, the second part about the layer is not entirely correct. You don\'t need to see Dr Horn to know why layer it is in, but why not, you are a patient of ours and there is no charge to see him.
It will be quite easy to tell if it is injected just under the skin. You can even work this out for yourself if you need directions 07426040086. Francis.

Suks Minhas maybe > agree.
Dr Ralph's clinic to be unhelpful [disagree] and over priced [agree].

You\'ve misread. I said they wouldn\'t be able to tell him what it is, not which layer it\'s in. It\'s in the right layer though, so I don\'t see the point of him going into London at Xmas for that. As you said he could tell for himself and we know from his description and photo that it is. Remember it was injected using a needle so it would require an insane amount of precision skill (for want of a better word) to repeatedly inject so shallow.

Agreed. And in my case I did. I went to an experienced doctor trained by Dr Oates. As I said above, he was very professional. I am sure he knew where and how to inject.

@aleksk
You went to a doctor trained by Dr Oates and not to Dr Oates himself.
A trainee is unlikely to have used a filler that was being experimented with like TUD, and your description of TUD (slushy) does not sound right.

He appears to be equally interested in science and progress in this filed as he is in the commercial viability of his business. At least that\'s my impression. I like to believe he would have said - It looks like you were injected too superficially. Let\'s dissolve it and start all over. For the record, I trust Dr Oates. He calls things as they are. He seems to me a person of exceptional intelligence and integrity.

Dr Oates is no doubt a great and genuine guy and a world leader in this field, but you had a botched penis filler procedure, it can happen anywhere is not always the fault of the doctor or trainee, so you are lucky you were wise enough to have had HA.
To what extent does it matter that the doctor is a good guy tho? Dr Horn is charmless and not interested in the slightest in small-talk, but we do not leave patients with problems if they are brought to our attention. Give Calibre a couple of chances to get it right to be fair to the clinic. If that fails, ask for a refund.

Just to clarify. My accordion effect was nothing like that od mediatps. It was 10 times worse. With my foreskin over the glans, it looked nice and even both flaccid and erect.

Once I would retract the foreskin, I had something like three Michelin tyres sitting on top of each other, but not symmetrically - one tyre bulging to the left, the other tyre bulging to the right. Feeling super soft. Looking super fake. I mean I would have made a schoolbook case study of the accordion effect. Not just a lot of filler bunching up, but distinct layers, just like in a real accordion. Good luck fucking with that. And no wonder I kept getting questions of the type: why does your dick look like that.

I apologise for saying the truth but this is a bad job. Get Calibre to fix it or get a refund. Don\'t be shy, that is what doctors/we rely on.
Better to direct your frustration towards the clinic that performed the procedure (regardless of how professional they were when doing so), they are a world leading clinic and have the skills and resources to get it right.

Just to clarify. My accordion effect was nothing like that od mediatps. It was 10 times worse. With my foreskin over the glans, it looked nice and even both flaccid and erect.
Just like mediatps was saying, I engaged in this discussion because people don\'t seem to pay attention to the important stuff, and then it has been accepted for years on this forum that some get good results, others don\'t but we don\'t know why.

I attempted to explain the likely causes of what you describe. But your doctor is best placed to see and understand what has happened, did the doctor explain anything about what went wrong?

Regarding filler migration to the foreskin region, this is a basic issue that should not be occurring. Don\'t inject too far into the under foreskin region near the glans, don\'t inject too shallow (probably not the case if it was Calibre), support your penis afterwards (Y-fronts keep horizontal, not hanging down) so gravity is not causing the filler to diffuse down into this area, and thin compress bandage behind the glans. Accordion is a different problem to filler migration under the foreskin (but related in your case) as too much filler is placed forward.

All clinics should without question fix poor results if they occur, for the reputation of penile dermal filler procedures.

If there are any Androfill patients that are not happy then email me, we need to see you and get the result 100% send to > This email address is being protected from spambots. You need JavaScript enabled to view it.

Remember it was injected using a needle so it would require an insane amount of precision skill (for want of a better word) to repeatedly inject so shallow.

.

I take your point, I did not see that a needle was used, yes you are right.

If the filler is superficial he will be able to feel it just under the skin anyway, it is not hard to tell.
I see a clinic in the UK injecting shallow using a cannula, presumably only to say they are using a cannula, but without going to the trouble of finding the right plane.
Without divulging any confidential patient information I think mediatps is local to us.

Francis, stop implying that Calibre is a dodgy practice where patients are told they are getting one filler but in fact they are getting something else. Why would they do that? It doesn\'t make any sense. I trust the doctor who injected me 100% that he injected me with Teoysal Ultra Deep.

Calibre clearly are not dodgy in the slightest... read comments \'Calibre world leaders etc etc\'

But I can\'t ignore this TUD issue because it does not reconcile with my experience of TUD. I am looking for a mistake in communication, wires crossed etc - Teoysal Ultimate maybe, that is closer to what you describe and similarly named. I will give the point a rest.

Also, as \'biggy\' above pointed out, it\'s really far-fetched to think that they could have injected in the wrong layer and too superficially. I know he was referring to mediatps more specifically, but also more generally how non-sense that argument is.

biggy means if using a needle it is hard to inject superficially. Injecting shallow (a clinic in the UK does this with cannula) is one of the causes of what you describe, but I specifically say \"(probably not the case if it was Calibre)\"

It comes down to what i originally wrote and argued: I had Teosyal Ultra Deep with a very experienced injector and I had very unsatisfactory result. Why? Because that\'s the nature of highly concentrated HA fillers especially in uncut men. They are very unsatisfactory.

I disagree with you.
Even the best doctors can make mistakes once in a while and get things wrong.

You\'re not implying that all the men who got HA here and had it dissolved were injected incorrectly?

In most cases yes that is what I am saying, the job (injection and aftercare) could have been done better, and we (I mean clinics generally) should fix it (~70%)

In some cases, the patients have taken too much and we should be telling them where the limits are, but there is an incentive to sell and the patient wants more filler (~20%)
Patients can be very insistent on having more filler, the dopamine kick of being larger wears off and they want another hit. Cosmetic surgery is addictive, especially this procedure.
Taper the shape slightly, and restrict to 20-25% increase in size with HA (I am not saying that in your case the cause was too much filler).

In a small number of cases, the patient did not follow instructions or for whatever \'unknown reason\' (we can also simply not know why) they are not a suitable candidate (~10%) this could include you.

Your other points - wearing right underwear, a bandage beneath the glans, blah, blah, blah - thank you, I am sure that is sensible and good advice, but it couldn\'t have possibly changed the fact that my filler agglomerated in three Michelin-like, asymmetrically placed tyres

Yes it would have changed this filler pooling issue. I apologise but I am certain of it. I can\'t understand why you are unable to entertain a remote possibility that the clinic might have something to do with this, when this is obvious given the results you describe.

Can you confirm you had the following.

- sufficient instructions on moulding the filler afterwards, minimum of twice per day ideally when Erect...
- supportive underwear (it sounds silly but it is important)
- compress bandage if prone to migration under Foreskin.

and felt soft as shit to the point that sex was impossible. I am sure it was not a case of filler migration to the Foreskin, as my Foreskin never felt heavy or filled.

It does not necessarily need to have been in the Foreskin that the filler pooled together. If you look at the mediatps photos with HA, there are no tyres like you describe.

Do you have any photos?
You should ask for a redo and if that does not give you the result you paid for, then a refund and a world-leading clinic will do this for you.

I feel for you but you almost have a stockholm syndrome because you had a bad result in Australia, but you are directing your frustration at Androfill - direct your frustration at the doctor who gave you a bad result.

Your frustration is misdirected.

I don\'t have a Stockholm syndrome, thank you for your concern. I am being perfectly rational.

Rational = Patient goes to a doctor for a result > result is not as described > doctor fixes or refunds.

Dr Oates told me that they had not had much if any experience with Teosyal Ultra Deep.

I understand you are angry about what happened. But it is illogical that you are misdirecting your frustration at Androfill, when we had nothing to do with your case.
If anyone is to blame it is ...... the clinic that trialled a filler they had no experience with on you which resulted in a poor outcome.

It\'s called risk taking and it\'s something I do very well in my life.

You had injected into your penis a filler that the doctor did not have any experience with, and predictably, had a bad result.
There is a difference between risk-taking, and taking calculated risks.
You paid for the privilege of being a guinea pig.

I doubt that there is an \"unknown reason\" why HA wouldn\'t work for me.

It is clear to me why it did not work. The clinic you went to is among the best and they have the skills to get it right.
At least you were safe with HA and no damage was done except to your pride and bank balance.
But are you now wanting to try Ellanse...??

Not 10%. How do you explain that?

We have had a complete dissolve in our clinic that I am aware of, mediatps. He was not unhappy with the HA, he just wanted a longer lasting filler.
If there are other patients from the clinic wanting to be dissolved I have not heard from them yet, but I think there must be a few (statistically).

There have been over 1,100 patients for HA now which I think means we are probably one of the largest clinics for HA in the world.
The odds for a full dissolve remain very small, I would have heard about it.

Of the small number fully dissolving (1 in 1,100), I would guess that ~20% will be patients that have too much filler. That is partly their own fault, but also the fault of the clinic for not managing their appetite for filler. ~70% of issues generally are the result of poor injection and aftercare, and can easily be fixed with HA.

Again, don\'t underestimate the collective knowledge of this forum. We know better than you because we are the ones who experienced and lived with the bad results.

You have had a traumatic result from Calibre and I am sure they will do the job again properly for you. It will simply be an oversight.

My opinion is informed by talking to many patients about their results (more than can be reached through forum discussions), not just a handful on here.
I have also tried these products to experience first hand and to be comfortable myself.

If you have HA injected correctly, and proper aftercare, you will almost certainly have a good result. If you have a poor result ask the clinic to fix it for no cost, which they can do because it is HA.

Androfill wrote:
.

Hi, thanks for answering questions on this forum.

Could you share your opinion on the price of fillers and how they will change over the next few years? Do you feel the price will stabilise at the current price or will they decrease as they become more popular. Say in 5 years how much will 10ml of voluma be?

Also, what is the standard/economy filler advertised on the Androfill website at '1650 per 10ml? thanks

@anonymousguy

HA fillers have been popular for years in the face and body. There has been no change in the price of Voluma over the past 5 years.
Fillers from South Korea are 50% cheaper than Voluma and do the job.

What might make the price come down is a filler specifically designed for the penis (Vivacy and other pharma companies are spending a fortune designing a HA filler for the penis, Hugel have one approved in Korea). I hope they release the products in 5ml or 10ml syringes, which might bring the price down.

Also, what is the standard/economy filler advertised on the Androfill website at '1650 per 10ml? thanks

It is '1,850 for 10ml but we will bring the price down as we negotiate lower prices.
We will see HA of a similar quality to Voluma (but not Voluma), costing '10,000 over 10 years to maintain a 10ml increase in Girth ('1,000 per year).

I PM you the name of the standard fillers.

Thank you for steering this post back to it\'s original topic!

anonymousguy wrote:
Hi, thanks for answering questions on this forum.

Could you share your opinion on the price of fillers and how they will change over the next few years? Do you feel the price will stabilise at the current price or will they decrease as they become more popular. Say in 5 years how much will 10ml of voluma be?

Also, what is the standard/economy filler advertised on the Androfill website at '1650 per 10ml? thanks

I've heard that Allergan and others are doing trials of new longer lasting fillers specifically designed for Girth enhancement.

Androfill wrote: [Also, that being said, do tell us a bit more if your can. How large are the nodes? Did they appear at the injection points, or elsewhere? Are they hard? If they are small and do not respond to steroids, can they be surgically removed or is the risk of scarring high?]

Good questions.

Dr Oates:
Can I ask what is your experience in dealing with complications?
Have you had to deal with basic complications after Ellanse such as a bad shape or filler migration and how was this dealt with if it occurred, or how can it be dealt with when it happens?
Ellanse is very interesting, but we do not have enough information in order to promote this as a safe product.
I hope your work will prove it to be safe product. If you publish something in a peer-reviewed journal then at least we can point to your study when the GMC asks us why we are using Ellanse in the penis here.

I am waiting on more info from the Sydney doctor on these and will get back. I think Ellanse can be great but less forgiving and unfortunately it will be a bit of trial and error. I do plan to write an article about complications of injection Phalloplasty.

aleksk wrote:
Tell us more. How reliable your source is? At what stage are the trials?

. Heard from a plastic surgeon who is a high volume purchaser. Sounded like it's going to take years to get approval in the US. Maybe the products will hit other markets first, but I don't know how that works. I'm guessing this industry is going to balloon quickly, but experienced injectors are difficult to train. If I was a new doctor looking to get rich, I'd be alll over getting into this now.

I am waiting on more info from the Sydney doctor on these and will get back. I think Ellanse can be great but less forgiving and unfortunately it will be a bit of trial and error. I do plan to write an article about complications of injection Phalloplasty.

@DrOates
Your publications are really good.

Dr H is hesitant to use Ellanse (the consent is 11 pages long and a software quiz), and very selective with patients.
I have seen Ellanse marketed as if there is no difference between it and HA.. how different is the risk profile in your view.

We have seen a couple of bad outcomes coming from other clinics (poor shape, and hard little nodules at the surface), adding to the hesitation to use Ellanse. There is no easy method of dealing with Ellanse problems.

Keep up the good work in pioneering the use of dermal fillers to replace fat transfers and other outdated methods.

Below are the Before & After photos of a clinic using Ellanse. This will be the shape of the patient\'s penis for 4 years if Ellanse E was used.
If the patient had used HA and this result had happened, it could just be dissolved away, and re-done properly.



In regard to the topic of this thread, patients can try Cutegel Ultra HA which Dr Kim claims to last 5 years. However, it is unrealistic that it will last this long.

Unlike Dr Morganstern and Dr Oates you and Moorgate aren't doctor led practices, your business model doesn't suit anything other than HA, as Biggy mentioned. You just aren't specialised enough to offer something like Ellanse, I'm sorry to say.