TOPIC: Infections, Complications, Risks of PMMA?

@cabronThanks for your message.4 years ago, before I did the operation, I went in this forum or this kind of forum to read the maximum I found on the subject.I never found anyone with 4 years background, who could have explained me anything.Here, I am reporting what I lived: after 2/3 years, the body rejected it. I saw in total 3 doctors (generalist, Dermatologist, surgeon) for this, all with experience and working in the biggest hospital here (and I live in a big city): they all agree on this point.PMMA is a \"foreign product\", it is not the only one used in medicine today.They were positive saying my body rejected the product. They had heard about PMMA, but not injected in the penis. They have each one many years of study and experience.
As I said, I never published before in forums, I am doing this to inform people like me, as I was 4 years ago when I had no idea, and when I did this mistake. Of course doctors injecting PMMA have their motivations, the ones here other motivations.
I am just reporting what I went through. Some seen to say they are more clever that doctors (skeptical), so please respect the rules of the forum you try to make people respect here.And if you think you respect the rules, please show a little of respect, because all are talking to me with respect and tried to convince me to publish it all when i did not want to, because they understood it could be a important info for many guys. Skeptikal, if you think the best doctors in one of the biggest european hospital, themselve teaching future doctors... if you think that such a team who worked seriously on my case, talked together, made anaylisis of the product extracted... if you think they are wrong when all the team of doctors agreed on the rejection... it means you just take pleasure contradicting people, and that you have more knowledge than them.As cabron said, if this debate is going this way, I will just stop talking and so will do the potential candidates.thanks for all the messages of respect, and i am good today, so it is a happy \"ok\" story at the end. thanks again

fran_berlin wrote: @cabronThanks for your message.4 years ago, before I did the operation, I went in this forum or this kind of forum to read the maximum I found on the subject.I never found anyone with 4 years background, who could have explained me anything.Here, I am reporting what I lived: after 2/3 years, the body rejected it. I saw in total 3 doctors (generalist, Dermatologist, surgeon) for this, all with experience and working in the biggest hospital here (and I live in a big city): they all agree on this point.PMMA is a \"foreign product\", it is not the only one used in medicine today.They were positive saying my body rejected the product. They had heard about PMMA, but not injected in the penis. They have each one many years of study and experience.
As I said, I never published before in forums, I am doing this to inform people like me, as I was 4 years ago when I had no idea, and when I did this mistake. Of course doctors injecting PMMA have their motivations, the ones here other motivations.
I am just reporting what I went through. Some seen to say they are more clever that doctors (skeptical), so please respect the rules of the forum you try to make people respect here.And if you think you respect the rules, please show a little of respect, because all are talking to me with respect and tried to convince me to publish it all when i did not want to, because they understood it could be a important info for many guys. Skeptikal, if you think the best doctors in one of the biggest european hospital, themselve teaching future doctors... if you think that such a team who worked seriously on my case, talked together, made anaylisis of the product extracted... if you think they are wrong when all the team of doctors agreed on the rejection... it means you just take pleasure contradicting people, and that you have more knowledge than them.As cabron said, if this debate is going this way, I will just stop talking and so will do the potential candidates.thanks for all the messages of respect, and i am good today, so it is a happy \"ok\" story at the end. thanks again

I\'m a bit flabbergasted by your post. I have not once proclaimed that your doctors were wrong. I have not started a debate, I have only asked questions. Perhaps there is an misunderstanding of the context of my messages if maybe English is your 2nd language. I am sincerely concerned about your situation and yearn to know more about your story. You would do your fellow man a service by continuing to share your background on the topic, and we would all greatly appreciate it.
I\'m a natural skeptic, so I tend to openly speculate and I openly question - but I do so conscious of your situation and I do so to add to the discussion. Please have my understanding. Thanks.

-S.O.

@blank550Thnaks for your message. I can answer here and give you the opinions of my doctors.The technique used is not the most important here. What is important: how does your body react to foreign product?For some people, it is well accepted, for others no. It is the same idea as an organ transplant... there is always a risk of rejection, but will not happen to everyone. The same with mammary prothesis, some womand reject it and 1 hour after the operation, they they to be opened again to take the prothesis off. So, the body reaction is what is important, more than the product itself (I cannot give you more details here, and I am sorry for this...)And when there is a rejection, it generally happens after 2/3 years.So if you go through this period, you are a lucky one, I was not, and I was not informed of such possibility

Fran you mentioned towards me, that you have already received a private message, from at least one user of this forum, who says he has undergone the PMMA injection with Dr Casavantes and is experiencing the same complications as you are, and that he asked for your Removal Doctor. Right ?

I think this is a information that is aswell important for our community to know.

@ Fran, this is quite a serious issue. Could we get the name of your surgeon, so I can be contact him. Obviously I wouldn\'t mention you or your case. I would pose as a potential patient who has lumps following PMMA and I\'d just ask if he has experiecne removing PMMA. Then it will allow me to ask him more about the potential for cancer. We can\'t ignore something like that and this board has many members who have PMMA, so it\'s vital we look into this.

@hoddle10

Fran mentioned Dr. Valter. I also posted the link to his website.

phalloboards.websitetoolbox.com/post/sho...919377&postcount=272

I meant the surgeon who removed the PMMA. It\'s him I\'d like to talk to.

miracle7 wrote: @hoddle10

Fran mentioned Dr. Valter. I also posted the link to his website.

phalloboards.websitetoolbox.com/post/sho...919377&postcount=272

I am sorry but i will not give any name of doctors. The doctors only accepted to remove it because my body rejected it and it seemed like a tumor.
In any cause he would have accepted for esthetic reasons. I mean, if you are not satisfied esthetically with your PMMA injection: 1) I think it is not possible to remove the product because it it like \'sticked\' to the skin2) The docs I saw will 100 % refuse to treat you
If you are in my very specific case, rejection of PMMA, and Balls or tumors not sticked to the skin, go to see any Dermatologist who will be able to remove it easily

You named Dr Valter.

We don\'t currently have any member with Balls or tumours, but it would be very useful to make some enquiries with a Dr that has removed them. To be honest I can\'t understand why you wont say his name. I\'ve had problems with penis surgeries in the past and know how devestating it can be. I\'d want to share any information I could that could prevent this from happening to others in the future.

Would you post some photo\'s of how your penis looks now and what the incision areas look like?

Sorry to be a pain, but we do have a lot of members who have had PMMA and are considering it. So far we\'ve only seen postive results and few aesthetic issues. So your case is of great interest to the forum and the more information you can give/show us the better.

Some of us should relax and appreciate that the terminology and understanding that is used on this board and in the Phalloplasty subculture is not as well know or the same in the general medical community. Doctors may well use the term 'rejection' to a lay person to describe a granuloma. As smartman keeps pointing out the complete term is 'Foreign Body Granuloma'. It should not be surprising that a doctor would initially be concerned about cancer when first presented with a potential granuloma. The morphology of a tumor and a granuloma share great similarities. A Nodule and a granuloma also have similar structures. In the US a pathologist would be the one to give a definitive diagnosis. In our zest to get more information, let us not forget that we are supposed to be a compassionate brotherhood. Some information some of us are asking for have no bearing or importance to fran berlin at this point. Fran Berlin, I think I speak for all of us here when I say that you are among friends and will be supported. Many of the members here including the moderators have gone through similar struggles with other procedures and will be a source of support and knowledge that could be of great benefit to you. One area of support that you may not have considered could be contacts for doctors in the medical community who may have more experience in more effective treatment of PMMA related complications. Please contact a moderator via pm if you have not already done so.

@fran berlin,
We are very grateful that you have shared your story with us, and we are here to help and support each other, so your story and anyone else, IMO the negative results will be more important than the positive ones and they will be v. beneficial for all of us, so you should expect many people here in the forum will ask you many questions and to know more about your past-penile PMMA history and that is normal and expected.
Thank god that you are happy now and I wish you the best in your future life.
If you don\'t mind fran and I will be v. grateful if you can share with me the following points (I think you have now fair amount of knowledge about PMMA) :-
1- I read that your treating doctors in your big city (I expect it is Berlin) said PMMA could cause cancer in your tissues (a pre-cancerous product??) :-
* We know that PMMA was used in our body since around 1940\'s e.g. Intra-ocular lens and also in bone cement for joint prosthesis so if it was really a cancerous product we should read about it long time ago, and it would never be used as a filler in our body. And I am sure (as you have mentioned before) your doctors know about PMMA and it was invented as a Dermal Filler by a german Prof. G. Lemperle in Frankfurt in 1989, so if PMMA can cause cancer ---> Lemperle would not have the approval from the german health authority for this product to be used in Germany 1989-1991 and the rest of europe / in 1990\'s in Canada and in USA- FDA approved in 2006.

* You have mentioned :-
I can answer here and give you the opinions of my doctors.The technique used is not the most important here. What is important: how does your body react to foreign product?For some people, it is well accepted, for others no. It is the same idea as an organ transplant... there is always a risk of rejection, but will not happen to everyone. The same with mammary prothesis, some womand reject it and 1 hour after the operation, they they to be opened again to take the prothesis off. So, the body reaction is what is important, more than the product itself (I cannot give you more details here, and I am sorry for this...)

The technique of the doctor and his experience in PMMA injection are very important in regard of PMMA complication than the product per se, that was the statement of many doctors who have great experience in permanent fillers e.g. Dr. S. Cohen and I have also posted in this thread a paper which prove that. They have always said the doctors have to be trained for permanent filler injection before they use it e.g never inject PMMA superficially also use a blunt cannula and not a sharp needle and a funnel technique injection and never inject PMMA while inserting the needle.
In regard of rejection of any implant in our body and not only in the penis there will be symptoms and signs for that (e.g. tenderness, diffuse oedema (swelling) over the whole implant i.e. Biofilm formation and not only localized in a small area and the rest of the implants ia normal , fever, redness of the skin over the implant and eventually skin breakdown and extrusion of the implant. And these didn\'t happen to you, please correct me Fran if I am wrong.
So if you had only nodules and lumps with different sizes with no pain, no redness of skin and no diffuse fluctuating swelling (fluid) of the penis-cellulitis and no high temp. ---> so you had only multiple nodules and different size-lumps ---> bad aesthetic result and asymmetry of your penis ---> due to clumping of the PMMA beads in different parts of your shaft and not distributed evenly along the shaft ---> the reason for that is the technique of your treating doctor +/- you didn\'t massage your penis esp. if you did notice irregularities in the 1st 24hrs + the weak carrier (cellulose) of the brazilian products.

* Fran did your treating surgeon remove the whole PMMA in your penis or only the bulges + the lumps ?

I am really happy for you now after you have mentioned that you are ok and fine.
SM

eqstudent wrote: Some of us should relax and appreciate that the terminology and understanding that is used on this board and in the Phalloplasty subculture is not as well know or the same in the general medical community. Doctors may well use the term 'rejection' to a lay person to describe a granuloma. As smartman keeps pointing out the complete term is 'Foreign Body Granuloma'. It should not be surprising that a doctor would initially be concerned about cancer when first presented with a potential granuloma. The morphology of a tumor and a granuloma share great similarities. A Nodule and a granuloma also have similar structures. In the US a pathologist would be the one to give a definitive diagnosis. In our zest to get more information, let us not forget that we are supposed to be a compassionate brotherhood. Some information some of us are asking for have no bearing or importance to fran berlin at this point. Fran Berlin, I think I speak for all of us here when I say that you are among friends and will be supported. Many of the members here including the moderators have gone through similar struggles with other procedures and will be a source of support and knowledge that could be of great benefit to you. One area of support that you may not have considered could be contacts for doctors in the medical community who may have more experience in more effective treatment of PMMA related complications. Please contact a moderator via pm if you have not already done so.

I echo your sentiments, and we must not forget that it isn\'t always easy to correctly interpret tone & connotation when simply reading text, especially when we have International members. I can speak on behalf of the Moderators when I say that there is a deep concern for Fran\'s prognosis, and hope his situation is resolved sooner than later.
Our questioning is an extension of our concern. Since Fran is experiencing FBG\'s 2-3 years out, it is imperative to learn about his options for treatment, ways he has learned to recognize symptoms, etc, in the event current Dr. C\'s/Dr. Passy\'s/Other\'s patients experience similar adverse events.
Fran is doing our forum a remarkable service by coming forward and I apologize if the questions have been overwhelming. It\'s just that we have a severe imbalance of satisfactory reporting to unsatisfactory reporting and could use all the information available. It should come as no surprise that I share a mutual concern, and wish Fran the very best outcome possible.
Fran_Berlin, you have given us substantial & insightful information thus far and look forward to anything else you are comfortable with sharing. The best of wishes for your health!

Honestly, I feel that sometimes the questions are too precise, but still I understand, and I try to do my best to answer your questions precisely. Technically speaking, we went to the maximum possible I think.
I would like to share with you how I was thinking before the PMMA injections, and now.
PMMA injections in the penis are not allowed in our countries, because the risk of rejection is possible (is it linked with the technique used? For me it was a canula from the base of the penis).This happened to me and can happen to everyone. It depends how your body reacts. You cannot know. I do not know how many per cent have bad reactions, but it is admitted with PMMA, that\'s one of the reason why our countries refuse to use this product for injections in the penis.
You know, 4 years ago, I thought that in life people must keep going with their projects and sometimes be audacious, that our countries are stupid because they are not opened to new methods, like PMMA, that brasil was the top for esthetic surgery... that I will have great benefit to do this, that it is cheap and for a long result, so a good investment...I just thought this is the progress, that guys are too shy to do it, but that I am audacious
Now I think I was insane, and now I do trust the medical staff in our countries. They only allow grease injection (in Europe) I think that our countries consider the risks and are here to put limits to protect us, because we need limits. Esthetic surgery needs limits, because as normal citizens, we just do not understand it. I am trying to report my experience, with facts, and read so many of you making accurate comments on it, because you did read so much about it... This is the danger of such forums, thinking we can understand medicine when we are no doctors, and try to teach others what to do. In our countries we do have governmental medicine agencies trying to do their best, it is their specialty. And now I am trying to be more humble, and trust our system.
I thought I was more clever than these agencies who \"were too shy and precautionary\" and did not let us have the chance to profit of the progress.
Now I have my feet on earth, but after reading some comments of one part of you guys, I actually just recognize myself 4 years ago: \"I am an audacious and a clever one, I am able to get any issue\".
You know, if just one of you recognise himself in this message, and reconsider going forward with such procedure, please tell me, because, even if I can prevent just one of you going through this, I will feel that I did something great.
I also read very kind and down to earth messages, thanks

fran_berlin wrote: This is the danger of such forums, thinking we can understand medicine when we are no doctors, and try to teach others what to do.

I certainly hope this forum isn\'t a substitute for the opinion of physicians and/or the information found in medical studies. It is one of many tools, and I implore all members & guests alike to exhaust all avenues of research before proceeding with any surgical method.

Published in 2006 when Artefill was just about to hit the market and contains information that can be found in various threads here but still worth a read IMHO.
www.miinews.com/pdf/Dermal_Fillers_CME.pdf